DBWI : No Empire of Brazil - Portugal

Alright guys, we knew that the recent Portuguese Independence Referendum finally comes to an end, and at least the Imperial side win a clear victory today. Emperor Luiz just finished his public speech and urging the citizens to honor the democratic process in defending the union. The "No" voters held massive celebration parties in the streets while the "Yes" republicans huddling arround, crying over their defeat...

Oh well, something crossed my mind though... what if the Empire was broken somewhere in 19th or 20th century... will the Monarchy stay in Brazil like today, or are they end up kicked back to Portugal?

Well, a divided Portugal-Brazil certainly won't get as much support from Europe. I can't see the Anti-American coalition coming together like it did when President Hitler attacked the Empire. Portugal definitely doesn't hold out against the Spaniards in the Syndicalist War, either; it was Brazilian reinforcements that saved Lisbon from conquest by the Syndies, making French support of the Spanish necessary to prevent the whole country from being overrun. With that, the French actually have a chance to beat the Germans on the Western Front. Then again, the Union breaking apart could butterfly Syndicalism altogether; that nutter Lenin could have implemented Bolhevism!

Yuelang said:

Alright guys, we knew that the recent Portuguese Independence Referendum finally comes to an end, and at least the Imperial side win a clear victory today. Emperor Luiz just finished his public speech and urging the citizens to honor the democratic process in defending the union. The "No" voters held massive celebration parties in the streets while the "Yes" republicans huddling arround, crying over their defeat...

Oh well, something crossed my mind though... what if the Empire was broken somewhere in 19th or 20th century... will the Monarchy stay in Brazil like today, or are they end up kicked back to Portugal?

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I honestly don't know how much this would work, but you *could* try butterflying the U.K.'s merger with New Zealand and the West Indies in 1892.....that's what got Brazil and Portugal to do the same in 1898.

HIM Dogson said:

Well, a divided Portugal-Brazil certainly won't get as much support from Europe. I can't see the Anti-American coalition coming together like it did when President Hitler attacked the Empire. Portugal definitely doesn't hold out against the Spaniards in the Syndicalist War, either; it was Brazilian reinforcements that saved Lisbon from conquest by the Syndies, making French support of the Spanish necessary to prevent the whole country from being overrun. With that, the French actually have a chance to beat the Germans on the Western Front. Then again, the Union breaking apart could butterfly Syndicalism altogether; that nutter Lenin could have implemented Bolhevism!

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Do remember, by the way, that the Federal States of America(Jonathan Roosevelt was possibly the greatest president we'd ever had, outside of Abe Lincoln) also helped rescue the Brazilians from Alexander Hitler and his men from not just wrecking Brazil, but conquering Mexico, too, in the World War; we taught Atlanta a lesson they'd never forget! (Although the "Anti-American" coalition you refer to are better known as the Allied Powers, really.)

OOC: I'm assuming that there's a fairly long ranging POD for this scenario-Brazil first became independent in 1824, IIRC....so let's just peg it at ~1820 or so and call it a day, huh?

United Kingdom of Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand is surprisingly stable and there are no notable Republican separatist sentiments, maybe because their center stayed in London instead of moving somewhere in their former colony...

But yeah, even if the Portuguese Republican movement is strong... they only have 43.7% of the vote... the rest of European Portuguese choose to honor their place as 'motherland' in the union and choose Monarchy...

Brazil would be much better off. Brazil could easily be a major power on its own while Portugal would be lost without Brazil. It's a completely one-sided relationship. All their connection to Portugal does, is drag them into useless wars they have no stake in like the ones you mentioned earlier.

Viva a independência e a separação do Brasil!

Napoléon Caesar Augustus said:

Brazil would be much better off. Brazil could easily be a major power on its own while Portugal would be lost without Brazil. It's a completely one-sided relationship. All their connection to Portugal does, is drag them into useless wars they have no stake in like the ones you mentioned earlier.

Viva a independência e a separação do Brasil!

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So let us go and don't organize these bogus cosmetic referenda. Massive fraud exists and everyone knows it.

Viva a independência e a separação do Brasil!

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oh well, the daily badmouthing from the spanish speaking republican neighbour already take one to their fold? What's the shame being the only imperialist country centered in America? (British Empire not counted because the King stayed in London, even if the Canadians are holding significant power in alliance with Australians...)

Napoleon,
Brazil better off? Ha. without a European power to protect it, Brazil would be beset by local wars which it wouldn't have the means to easily prosecute. They'd lose the connection with West Africa that was so advantageous for them (for example, Brazil would have never been able to follow Britain's lead in abolishing slavery, and instead calling it temporary indentured servitude, as Britain did in South Africa, and Brazil, having a sister territory in Africa, was able to do). Without a crown in Brazil, it would have splintered, just like the Spanish colonies.

Instead, Brazil remained in the empire, using the mother country to grow stronger. Some see it as the mother country using the child, but in reality it was the child using the mother instead of storming off like some petulant 18 year old, thinking he knew everything and could live perfectly well on his own, and finding out he wasn't so smart after all.

Napoléon Caesar Augustus said:

Viva a independência e a separação do Brasil!

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Oh, so you're one of those people, huh? If we're gonna go that far, why should Sao Paolo care if Cisplatina is being attacked? Guyana should be independent from Brazil! But wait! If the Peruvians attack the province of Bolivia, why should people from Rio care? Hell, why should people from Bogota care if Rio is bombarded? It's stupid to have any form of unity, because that comes with... *gasp*... OBLIGATIONS!?!?!?!?!?! Oh the horror! Every inch of land in Brazil should get independence as its own country! Then, we'll be nice and divided when the next power hungry megalomaniac decides to take over the world! If people like you had gotten their way, Brazil would be kissing Alexander Hitler's ass right now! Unity is what the Empire needs right now!