Challenge: Let the Graf Zeppelin be finished, commissioned, and sent to battle in the Atlantic. A bonus if the Kriegsmarine decided to build 1 or 2 more.
AHC: Graf Zeppelin commissioned
- Thread starter Tredecimus
- Start date
The Royal Navy and/or the Royal Air Force will happily relieve the Germans of the need to use/build any more aircraft carriers.
The RAF and FAA hit it with everything from Swordfish to Lancaster until it sinks somewhere off Norway and becomes an interesting reef for late 20th century divers.
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Let's see. The earliest KM Graf Zeppelin could be finished is late 1940. Then she will sit in port while her Luftwaffe air group works up on land bases for the most part, with perhaps a few live exercises in the sheltered Baltic to practice their carrier landings and use of the catapults. Then the order to accompany KM Bismarck and KM Prinz Eugen on their Atlantic breakout comes.
Everyone is in high spirits as the three ships leave Kiel and head to Norway, where their location is revealed to the British. Because the German surface raiders are accompanied by an aircraft carrier, the British response ensures that an Illustrious-class carrier accompanies HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Hood, and several crusiers hopping to intercept the Germans in the Denmark Straits.
On board Graf Zeppelin, the Luftwaffe aircrews find that operating their jury-rigged Bf-109T's and Ju-87C's from the rolling and pitching carrier deck is far different from their training in the calm Baltic. After three landing accidents destroying a Ju-87 and two Bf-109s, the Kriegsmarine orders the Luftwaffe air group to cease any further flights until any enemy ships are sighted. This timidity disgusts the several Japanese naval advisors on board the carrier, who have little doubt their own flight crews would have little difficulty conducting flight operations in similar conditions. They also know the British (whom the IJN still admires) will be in the air.
As the Japanese advisors suspected, the Royal Navy knows its stuff. A Martlet from HMS Illustrious make an initial contact with the German raiders north of Iceland, and this is followed by an attack by 14 Swordfish torpedo bombers. Graf Zeppelin is the focus of the attack, in which she is struck by one torpedo that starts a fire, crippling the aft elevator.
The Germans are then saved by increasing fog that forces the British to suspend air operations. However, unknown to the British a battle of sorts is brewing on the Graf Zeppelin, between the ships's Kriegsmarine commander and the Luftwaffe general commanding the air unit. Finally Lutjens on Bismarck is forced to intervene. Incensed that the British seem to have little difficulty operating their carrier aircraft, Lutjens orders the Luftwaffe to throw caution to the wind and ensure that a CAP is up at all times and Ju-87 dive bombers are fueled and armed on deck to immediate launching as soon as any British ships are encountered.
The Luftwaffe aircrew gets it's chance to redeem itself when the visibility improves and Prinz Eugen sights HMS Sheffield, which had been trailing the Germans at a discreet distance until both ships made course corrections that inadvertantly brought them into range of each other. The order is given to launch a strike at Shellfield with all 14 Ju-87s on deck. What transpires is a deadly comedy of errors. First, it takes far too long for the catapult system on Graf Zeppelin to launch all the Stukas, and by the time the small flight has reached an appropriate altitude to underake dive bombing attacks, Sheffield is no longer in visual range of Prinz Eugen. However, the Luftwaffe is determined to show up those Navy bastards. Flying to Sheffield's last reported position, they sight a cruiser and attack it. Unfortunately, the cruiser is Prinz Eugen, whose KM coded messages to the Stukas are ignored because the flight crews only have Luftwaffe code books with them. Luckily for the German cruiser, the Stukas fail to damage their target, but they then must manage a sucessful landing back on the Graf Zeppelin. Four of the Fourteen aircraft crash on landing, one plowing into the island bridge.
While Graf Zeppelin is attempting to recover her aircraft she separates from the Bismarck and fog again returns. As the ships separate, Graf Zeppelin steams directly toward the Sheffield, whose commander is astonished to see an aircraft carrier emerge from the fog in point blank range for his 8-inch guns. What develops is a running battle between the two ships, with Sheffield landing numerious hits but also taking severe damage herself from the Graf Zeppelin's strong gun battery (the Kriegsmarine my be incompetent with aircraft, but its gunnery is always excellent). In fact, the carrier's gunnery is so effective that Sheffield is forced to retire from the action
By now the commotion has brought Lutjen's into the fray and also attracted the attention of Illustrious, Hood and Prince of Wales. Illustrious's swordfish begin the action with a sucessful strike at Graf Zeppelin, leaving her listing and taking on water. Unaware that the British capital ships are closing on his position, Lutjen's orders Prinz Eugen to take off survivors and scuttle the carrier. While this operation is underway and Bismarck is slowly idling about, a nearly stationary target herself, Hood and Prince of Wales emerge from the gloom. The rest is of course, history. But to this day the Battle of the Denmark Strait is remembered as the greatest British naval victory since the days of Nelson - three major German naval units sunk with only minor damage to Sheffield
Everyone is in high spirits as the three ships leave Kiel and head to Norway, where their location is revealed to the British. Because the German surface raiders are accompanied by an aircraft carrier, the British response ensures that an Illustrious-class carrier accompanies HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Hood, and several crusiers hopping to intercept the Germans in the Denmark Straits.
On board Graf Zeppelin, the Luftwaffe aircrews find that operating their jury-rigged Bf-109T's and Ju-87C's from the rolling and pitching carrier deck is far different from their training in the calm Baltic. After three landing accidents destroying a Ju-87 and two Bf-109s, the Kriegsmarine orders the Luftwaffe air group to cease any further flights until any enemy ships are sighted. This timidity disgusts the several Japanese naval advisors on board the carrier, who have little doubt their own flight crews would have little difficulty conducting flight operations in similar conditions. They also know the British (whom the IJN still admires) will be in the air.
As the Japanese advisors suspected, the Royal Navy knows its stuff. A Martlet from HMS Illustrious make an initial contact with the German raiders north of Iceland, and this is followed by an attack by 14 Swordfish torpedo bombers. Graf Zeppelin is the focus of the attack, in which she is struck by one torpedo that starts a fire, crippling the aft elevator.
The Germans are then saved by increasing fog that forces the British to suspend air operations. However, unknown to the British a battle of sorts is brewing on the Graf Zeppelin, between the ships's Kriegsmarine commander and the Luftwaffe general commanding the air unit. Finally Lutjens on Bismarck is forced to intervene. Incensed that the British seem to have little difficulty operating their carrier aircraft, Lutjens orders the Luftwaffe to throw caution to the wind and ensure that a CAP is up at all times and Ju-87 dive bombers are fueled and armed on deck to immediate launching as soon as any British ships are encountered.
The Luftwaffe aircrew gets it's chance to redeem itself when the visibility improves and Prinz Eugen sights HMS Sheffield, which had been trailing the Germans at a discreet distance until both ships made course corrections that inadvertantly brought them into range of each other. The order is given to launch a strike at Shellfield with all 14 Ju-87s on deck. What transpires is a deadly comedy of errors. First, it takes far too long for the catapult system on Graf Zeppelin to launch all the Stukas, and by the time the small flight has reached an appropriate altitude to underake dive bombing attacks, Sheffield is no longer in visual range of Prinz Eugen. However, the Luftwaffe is determined to show up those Navy bastards. Flying to Sheffield's last reported position, they sight a cruiser and attack it. Unfortunately, the cruiser is Prinz Eugen, whose KM coded messages to the Stukas are ignored because the flight crews only have Luftwaffe code books with them. Luckily for the German cruiser, the Stukas fail to damage their target, but they then must manage a sucessful landing back on the Graf Zeppelin. Four of the Fourteen aircraft crash on landing, one plowing into the island bridge.
While Graf Zeppelin is attempting to recover her aircraft she separates from the Bismarck and fog again returns. As the ships separate, Graf Zeppelin steams directly toward the Sheffield, whose commander is astonished to see an aircraft carrier emerge from the fog in point blank range for his 8-inch guns. What develops is a running battle between the two ships, with Sheffield landing numerious hits but also taking severe damage herself from the Graf Zeppelin's strong gun battery (the Kriegsmarine my be incompetent with aircraft, but its gunnery is always excellent). In fact, the carrier's gunnery is so effective that Sheffield is forced to retire from the action
By now the commotion has brought Lutjen's into the fray and also attracted the attention of Illustrious, Hood and Prince of Wales. Illustrious's swordfish begin the action with a sucessful strike at Graf Zeppelin, leaving her listing and taking on water. Unaware that the British capital ships are closing on his position, Lutjen's orders Prinz Eugen to take off survivors and scuttle the carrier. While this operation is underway and Bismarck is slowly idling about, a nearly stationary target herself, Hood and Prince of Wales emerge from the gloom. The rest is of course, history. But to this day the Battle of the Denmark Strait is remembered as the greatest British naval victory since the days of Nelson - three major German naval units sunk with only minor damage to Sheffield
Nice, though HMS Shefflied was armed with twelve 6 inch/50 BL MkXXIII guns and not 8 inch weapons.
I've followed a number of these Graf Zepplin threads & my take is this 'test' carrier is best not used on a sortie into the Atlantic. It might be of some value in the Baltic in the summer of 1941, buts best use would be regular sorties into the North Sea to harass and ambush British reconnaissance aircraft and those from Coastal Command on ASW missions in the North Sea region. By disrupting those regularly the GZ can both help the submarine campaign, and set up conditions for a better chance of a suprise sortie by surface raiders. The Brits wont know directly if each GZ sortie is a covering mission, or just another effort at mucking about with the recon & ASW flights.
Assisting vs the Murmansk convoys is another mission. The GZ can add its small contingent to the convoy interdiction, and use its deck to extend air recon further west & north.Eventually the GZ will be run down and put out of action as was the Tirpitz. Until then it could be a anoying goad in the side of Brit naval and air activity in the North Sea and Arctic regions.
Assisting vs the Murmansk convoys is another mission. The GZ can add its small contingent to the convoy interdiction, and use its deck to extend air recon further west & north.Eventually the GZ will be run down and put out of action as was the Tirpitz. Until then it could be a anoying goad in the side of Brit naval and air activity in the North Sea and Arctic regions.
No, no, no! Everyone knows that the GZ could fight off the entire Home Fleet because she’s so awesome and the Home Fleet is led by drooling incompetents who have been sniffing lead-based paint thinner for years and who will not be able to resist the awesome, um, awesomeness of the carrier arm of the Kriegsmarine which was created by the equally awesome NOTNAZIs who… oh hang on, isn’t all that on another thread? I think I need to go and lay down in a dark room, I start twitching every time I hear the words ‘German carriers’.
Perhaps we can summarise it: NOTNAZIsawesomesaucecarriersbrilliantKriegsmarineAdmiraltydroolingidiots!
Well, first things first she was a bad design. She had a permanent list because some idiot gave her a set of 6 inch guns (being confused as to the purpose of the ship obviously) and she was very heavy and handled badly (the Germans had a bad habit of designing ships that didn’t so much skip across the waves, as more like headbutt their way through them). Then you have the fact that the Germans wanted to stick navalised Me109s on the damn thing. The Me109 was a very good plane, but it had a very narrow undercarriage and rookies frequently crashed because of this. A narrow undercarriage on a plane for a carrier is a bad idea. Putting Stukas on it wasn’t a bad idea though. Finally there’s the fact that the Germans not only had no experience in designing a carrier they also had no experience in operating one either. Various people have tried to write (or in one case drivel) their way around this. Could the Germans have finished GZ? Very likely. Given enough time they could have finished Peter Strasser too. Could they have used them properly? Possibly. But the window of opportunity is a narrow one - don’t forget that Hitler writes off his surface fleet after the Battle of the Barents Sea in December 1942.
I would like to point out I'm maintaining my current policy of refraining from commenting on any threads involving German aircraft carriers. That is all.
I liked Zoomar's scenario as to how the carrier could make things worse for the Germans (no Bismarck victory), not better.