USA/CSA reunifaction

[Agentdark]

Okay, presume that the CSA wins independance in one of a 100 different ways, but what would be a possible way for the CSA to be incorporated back into the USA, either by Unifaction, Anexxation, whatever...

[David bar Elias]

Originally Posted by Agentdark

Okay, presume that the CSA wins independance in one of a 100 different ways, but what would be a possible way for the CSA to be incorporated back into the USA, either by Unifaction, Anexxation, whatever...

The USA becomes a thriving social democracy.....by the 1980s, the USA is even wealthier than it is today.....far less racism than in Dixie. By the 1990s, the Confederacy begins to break apart. The southern states begin to break away back to the Union.....depends on just how big the CSA is in such a scenario. If the CSA just comprises the 11 states of OTL, then the border states go first. Then the CSA eventually declares war on the USA, and the USA conquers the South, and revives the Union, but has to spend billions rehabilitating the South to match the North........

[Straha]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*is laughing on the floor*

THe two cultures are STILL pretty different and somewhat hostile even after 140 years of northern reeducation plus the second reconstruction/civil rights in 1960 to 1980 which destroyed the old order. An indie dixie would NEVER want to reunite with the US

[Nicole]

I can't see USA/CSA Reconciliation as being possible after 1900... now maybe before then, if the early CSA falls apart soon after it's creation, but after 40 years the generation in power will have known only the CSA for their entire adult lives, and don't feel that connection to the USA. Now, I can see the USA and CSA ending up close allies, for example, but reunification..

[Straha]

I don't see either the US or CS falling apart. I see the best political analogy for the CS being brazil or another unstable latin american country. Regional troubles yes, juntas yes? implosion into many peices no

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by Straha

I don't see either the US or CS falling apart. I see the best political analogy for the CS being brazil or another unstable latin american country. Regional troubles yes, juntas yes? implosion into many peices no

Well, the CSA is a state built on secession from a similar union (unlike the USA, built on "secession" from a colonial system to a radically different union), so it might be possible, but I think that secession would be treated as a very last resort- like it was OTL, in fact... the South put up with a lot of percieved injustices before they seceded. (I'm not saying they were injustices, but they were percieved that way and that's what's important)

[Straha]

IIRC the CS constition forbids secession. As would a psot CS victory US constittion.

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by Straha

IIRC the CS constition forbids secession. As would a psot CS victory US constittion.

The CSA Constitution forbids secession? That's strange...

I agree that a Constitutional Amendment would be rushed through to explicitly ban secession after the ATL's ACW.

[Straha]

Note: That's what I recall... I may or may not be right./

[Agentdark]

Meh...It was just a thought.....

[The Ubbergeek]

Originally Posted by Imajin

The CSA Constitution forbids secession? That's strange...

I agree that a Constitutional Amendment would be rushed through to explicitly ban secession after the ATL's ACW.

The Confederate Constitution = the USA one at time, minus maybe a few items, as far I know.

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by The Ubbergeek

The Confederate Constitution = the USA one at time, minus maybe a few items, as far I know.

And the US constitution doesn't explicitly ban secession anywhere...

[The Ubbergeek]

Was not there anything about that added later after the ACW, or I am wrong? At least something that is interpreted as it?

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by The Ubbergeek

Was not there anything about that added later after the ACW, or I am wrong? At least something that is interpreted as it?

The Supreme Court ruled secession unconstitutional in 1867, after it had already been crushed by the Union Leviathan.

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Imajin

I can't see USA/CSA Reconciliation as being possible after 1900... now maybe before then, if the early CSA falls apart soon after it's creation, but after 40 years the generation in power will have known only the CSA for their entire adult lives, and don't feel that connection to the USA. Now, I can see the USA and CSA ending up close allies, for example, but reunification..

Makes sense.

[HueyLong]

Straha, where are you getting this stuff? The CSA constitution said nothing more on the matter of secession. Why? Because they felt it was an inherent part of the constitution-as-contract. To disavow it or even add an amendment allowing secession would have removed the legitimacy they had.

The States would have held the right to secede. There was nothing stopping them in CSA law or thought.

[Max Sinister]

Gurps AE claims that the CSA constitution doesn't allow secession. Could be a mistake (or is only valid in the Dixie TL), though.

[HueyLong]

Just in GURPs. The only major differences were the addition of a line item veto, a six year one-time term for presidents, and more restrictive commerce clause.

The line in their preamble that suggests secession and more independence:


We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character..

And here is a site, with a slightly anti-Confederate bias, I'll note, that does look at each change made to the Constitution.

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/CSA.htm