A Plethora of Princes - (Thread 2) : A New Europe

[fhaessig]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

I don't see it as being politically feasible for Belgium to aim to be larger than it was legally BEFORE 1830

I don't see an annexation of non-Belgian lands at all


Thanks for the comments
Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I'm not quite sure I understand. I thought the setting of Louis-Phillippe's son on the belgium throne involved a war with the netherlands. Did I misunderstood?

If not, I don't think the legallity of owning some mostly unpopulated, marshy lands really has any impact on the peace treaty. Border readjustment occu all the time in those things, even for short wars.

It's not as if there were a lot of people involved.

If I misunderstood and there hasn't been a real war, then, forget what I said.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by fhaessig

I'm not quite sure I understand. I thought the setting of Louis-Phillippe's son on the belgium throne involved a war with the netherlands. Did I misunderstood?

If not, I don't think the legallity of owning some mostly unpopulated, marshy lands really has any impact on the peace treaty. Border readjustment occu all the time in those things, even for short wars.

It's not as if there were a lot of people involved.

If I misunderstood and there hasn't been a real war, then, forget what I said.

No you did not misunderstand

I just guess I have a different interpretation on this as well as on most other things

I just don't see that a victorious Belgium would be able to secure international recognition for anything ore

I had thought that my maximum Belgium was the greatest possible, giving all of Limburg and Luxembourg to them

Grey Wolf

[fhaessig]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

No you did not misunderstand

I just guess I have a different interpretation on this as well as on most other things

I just don't see that a victorious Belgium would be able to secure international recognition for anything ore

I had thought that my maximum Belgium was the greatest possible, giving all of Limburg and Luxembourg to them

Grey Wolf

OH, it's certainly great enougth. I just said I thought it would be more interested in a secure channel from sea to antwerpen than in some village on the border and would have swapped for this on the peace table. It's not a question of a bigger belgium, but on where it has grown.

[JHPier]

Originally Posted by fhaessig

If not, I don't think the legallity of owning some mostly unpopulated, marshy lands really has any impact on the peace treaty. Border readjustment occu all the time in those things, even for short wars.

It's not as if there were a lot of people involved.

What do you mean, underpopulated? Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is and was as densely populated as any rural part of The Netherlands. Moreover, it is and was a solidly protestant part. They would NOT have appreciated being included in a catholic state.

[fhaessig]

Originally Posted by JHPier

What do you mean, underpopulated? Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is and was as densely populated as any rural part of The Netherlands. Moreover, it is and was a solidly protestant part. They would NOT have appreciated being included in a catholic state.

??? ARe we really speaking about the same piece of Land?

I'm speking aboiut the south bank of the schelde. When driving there it didn't seem to me to include any big town, even nowadays.

And, IIRC, Welcheren was mostly marshy grounds at the time.

Am I wrong?

[JHPier]

Originally Posted by fhaessig

??? ARe we really speaking about the same piece of Land?

I'm speking aboiut the south bank of the schelde. When driving there it didn't seem to me to include any big town, even nowadays.

And, IIRC, Welcheren was mostly marshy grounds at the time.

Am I wrong?

I said: "Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is and was as densely populated as any rural part of The Netherlands", rural being the operative word. There are half a dozen or so smallish towns, nowadays of maybe 10-15.000 people, and a larger number of villages, on a piece of land that is a maybe just a tad bigger as Nantucket.
Walcheren merely holds the provincial capital, Middelburg, and the province's main port, Vlissingen, plus a few smaller towns.

[fhaessig]

Originally Posted by JHPier

I said: "Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is and was as densely populated as any rural part of The Netherlands", rural being the operative word. There are half a dozen or so smallish towns, nowadays of maybe 10-15.000 people, and a larger number of villages, on a piece of land that is a maybe just a tad bigger as Nantucket.
Walcheren merely holds the provincial capital, Middelburg, and the province's main port, Vlissingen, plus a few smaller towns.

So forget about Welcheren, if those cities already existed by mid-19th century, which I suspect is the case.

About the south bank of the schelde, I didn't mean to imply they were totally deserted. However, if, as was the case, AFAIK, the population is limited to some villages, I don't think it is outside of the possibility for them to be handed over by the dutch authorities, if they are compensated with simillar land elsewhere. This was done all the time in 19th century treaties ( for a really extreme exemple, have a look at how the border was drawn at Frankfuhrt treaty - and this is still reflected in french internal divisions nowadays - ).

I have another question about belgium in this TL. What about the linguistic status? Is all of Belgium going to convert to french language by the end of the 19th century, as it nearly was OTL ( antwerpen was 40% french speaking )? Bigger dutch-speaking parts would argue against it. OTOH, a french King in Bruxelles is not really going to encourage the Vlaams language, and this will have repercutions.

[JHPier]

Originally Posted by fhaessig

About the south bank of the schelde, I didn't mean to imply they were totally deserted. However, if, as was the case, AFAIK, the population is limited to some villages, ....

I don't know what your concept of "some villages" is, but as I said before, there were a couple of towns there, not big ones, true, but still 3-4 times larger then a village.
And while Limburgers were a bunch of b-y papists anyway, the people of Zeeuwsch-Vlaanderen were not.

Originally Posted by fhaessig

I have another question about belgium in this TL. What about the linguistic status? Is all of Belgium going to convert to french language by the end of the 19th century, as it nearly was OTL ( antwerpen was 40% french speaking )? Bigger dutch-speaking parts would argue against it. OTOH, a french King in Bruxelles is not really going to encourage the Vlaams language, and this will have repercutions.

Since 19C-Belgium was wholly French-speaking, on the official level, and Flemish emancipation a post-WWI phenomenon, I don't think it matters much.