Projects combine: Realistic CSA victory with quasi-Fascist United Ireland

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Alright I'm wondering whether or not I should combine two of my current projects into one whole.

1) A realistic Confederate victory
This is my latest map project, teasers of which are located in the Map Thread. To summarise, CSA wins but collapses into extreme left-wing horror in the early 1900s, combine Fundamentalist Christianity with Maoism, that's about it. USA becomes more active overseas to compensate for the lose of prestige. France and Britain realise that they bet on the wrong horse and do everything they can to patch things up with America, with France pulling out of Mexico much earlier. And France also intervenes in the Six-Weeks War and manages to halt Prussian expansionism, preserving the French monarchy, preventing Prussia from being recognised as a true Great Power by creating Germany and causing then to take a radical sift Right, which leads to Communist Revolution further down the line.

2) Quasi-Fascist United Ireland
My story/scenario/weird dream project. The POD is during the Famine, which is much less harsh then OTL, causing a migration of affected farmers to other parts of Irelabd rather then causing widespread death and emigration. Most farmers move to Ulster, preventing a Protestant hegemony taking hold in the province by balancing out the two populations. Non-secterian Socialism becomes very popular in Belfast and more industrial areas, meanwhile hardcore Unionism is combined to industrialists, landowners and the upper-middle class, with some support from Secterian working men.
Home Rule does not establish a strong link with the Catholic Church as IOTL, and is accepted as generally good across the entire island. Home Rule is therefore achieved in 1912 with little fuss.
Things start to destabilise in 1915 when Trade Unions become increasingly militant in demanding reform, and a new wave of agrarian unrest breaks out in western Ireland (largely due to a very Blanquist James Connolly). Patrick Pearse and Eoin MacNeil team-up to create a new organisation to combat "Marxist thugs" and eventually launch a coup d'état in 1919 a la Mussolini and his March on Rome.

My story doesn't have much background outside of Ireland, however by bringing the map forward a decade or two I could create a pretty comprehensive Universe

Thoughts?

[Simreeve]

Originally Posted by Revolutionary Todyo

Alright I'm wondering whether or not I should combine two of my current projects into one whole.

1) A realistic Confederate victory
This is my latest map project, teasers of which are located in the Map Thread. To summarise, CSA wins but collapses into extreme left-wing horror in the early 1900s, combine Fundamentalist Christianity with Maoism, that's about it. USA becomes more active overseas to compensate for the lose of prestige. France and Britain realise that they bet on the wrong horse and do everything they can to patch things up with America, with France pulling out of Mexico much earlier. And France also intervenes in the Six-Weeks War and manages to halt Prussian expansionism, preserving the French monarchy, preventing Prussia from being recognised as a true Great Power by creating Germany and causing then to take a radical sift Right, which leads to Communist Revolution further down the line.

2) Quasi-Fascist United Ireland
My story/scenario/weird dream project. The POD is during the Famine, which is much less harsh then OTL, causing a migration of affected farmers to other parts of Irelabd rather then causing widespread death and emigration. Most farmers move to Ulster, preventing a Protestant hegemony taking hold in the province by balancing out the two populations. Non-secterian Socialism becomes very popular in Belfast and more industrial areas, meanwhile hardcore Unionism is combined to industrialists, landowners and the upper-middle class, with some support from Secterian working men.
Home Rule does not establish a strong link with the Catholic Church as IOTL, and is accepted as generally good across the entire island. Home Rule is therefore achieved in 1912 with little fuss.
Things start to destabilise in 1915 when Trade Unions become increasingly militant in demanding reform, and a new wave of agrarian unrest breaks out in western Ireland (largely due to a very Blanquist James Connolly). Patrick Pearse and Eoin MacNeil team-up to create a new organisation to combat "Marxist thugs" and eventually launch a coup d'état in 1919 a la Mussolini and his March on Rome.

My story doesn't have much background outside of Ireland, however by bringing the map forward a decade or two I could create a pretty comprehensive Universe

Thoughts?

"A realistic Confederate victory"?

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Originally Posted by Simreeve

"A realistic Confederate victory"?

Yep, they win but don't go "Latin America? Yum!"

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Here's the maps for the Confederate scenario btw.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...postcount=5402

And here's a link to the Fascist Ireland story

http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...d.php?t=240531

Go self-promotion

[Revolutionary Todyo]

92 views and only one comment?

Come on guys, I need help here :/

[oudi14]

I suspect part of the problem is that most folks on here tend to take a dim view of CSA victory TLs. Sort of like Sea Lion lite. BTW, WTF happened to Tejas? Did Juarez send his troops north to take some of it back?

[SlickWilly]

One of the main Fascist organisation we had in Ireland was The BlueShirt movement which at its height was bigger than it's politcal party, Fine Gael -The United Ireland Party.

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Originally Posted by SlickWilly

One of the main Fascist organisation we had in Ireland was The BlueShirt movement which at its height was bigger than it's politcal party, Fine Gael -The United Ireland Party.

Yes I know of them, though I sincerely doubt they were that big, they were pretty much considered the laughing stock of Fascism untill Mussolini invaded Greece.
Hell the Blueshirt volunteers who went to Spain got blown away by Nationalist troops, and after that spent the Civil War doing sweet FA.

They're completely and utterly butterflied, the scenario this Ireland is coming about in is in the OP.

[naraht]

What happened to *Texas*? (two territories and some of the land given back to Mexico?)

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Originally Posted by naraht

What happened to *Texas*? (two territories and some of the land given back to Mexico?)

*Sigh*

They try to invade Mexico in the hope a quick victory against the Eternal Dago will help plaster over some of the mnay cracks appearing in the Confederacy. Meanwhile, Mexico is much more stable as Napoleon hauled ass out of there earlier and the US has been fostering good relations as a way of keeping the Rebs out of Latin America. So as soon as the Confederates rag-tag army of state militias, conscripts and very small but professional, if out-dated, army march across the Rio Grande, they are chewed up by a near flawless Mexican defence.

The South finally caves with social, political and economic issues, the Mexicans "liberate" Texas and Seqouyah, and then it and much of northern Texas to the Union as partial repayment of for the arms they were sold.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Revolutionary Todyo

*Sigh*

They try to invade Mexico in the hope a quick victory against the Eternal Dago will help plaster over some of the mnay cracks appearing in the Confederacy. Meanwhile, Mexico is much more stable as Napoleon hauled ass out of there earlier and the US has been fostering good relations as a way of keeping the Rebs out of Latin America. So as soon as the Confederates rag-tag army of state militias, conscripts and very small but professional, if out-dated, army march across the Rio Grande, they are chewed up by a near flawless Mexican defence.

The South finally caves with social, political and economic issues, the Mexicans "liberate" Texas and Seqouyah, and then it and much of northern Texas to the Union as partial repayment of for the arms they were sold.

So the CSA beats the union and then loses to Mexico (and the Union doesn't take advantage of the situation in the CSA to restart the war)???

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Originally Posted by naraht

So the CSA beats the union and then loses to Mexico (and the Union doesn't take advantage of the situation in the CSA to restart the war)???

The CSA has been decaying for some 40 years by now, meanwhile Mexico is as dynamic, liberal and industrialised as a European nation. So yes, they lost.
Confederate army is tiny compared to what size it should be anyway, with state guards being the main order for security, it's also very outdated. Meanwhile Mexico has a Union training and Union arms.

Who wants to renannex a region that is almost solely cotton planting, huge unemployment levels, Israel level ethnic tensions and a population that fucking despises your nation?

[Simreeve]

Originally Posted by Revolutionary Todyo

2) Quasi-Fascist United Ireland
My story/scenario/weird dream project. The POD is during the Famine, which is much less harsh then OTL, causing a migration of affected farmers to other parts of Ireland rather then causing widespread death and emigration. Most farmers move to Ulster,

Why? It's not as though there's likely to be any "unclaimed" land there for them to take over and grow crops in -- even if you have any reason why growing enough crops there should be any easier than it was in the areas from which they moved -- because, unless you have a far earlier POD to change things around, everywhere already belongs to somebody or other. In fact, by the time of the famine IOTL, just about every bit of land on which the Irish peasantry could grow crops was being used for growing crops: That was a significant factor in the famine, in fact, because without any new land available to clear the customary [rural] Irish system of inheritance by dividing a deceased farmer's holdings between all of his sons had reduced the typical size of peasant smallholdings to only slightly above what would support their families if nothing went wrong, and so when the potato blight struck hardly any of them had much (if anything at all) in the way of either stored foods or saved money -- that could have been used for buying foods from elsewhere -- upon which to fall back.
And in Ulster, at that time, ownership of quite a lot of the land was legally reserved for the Protestant community (who, incidentally, generally practiced inheritance by primogeniture instead of by partition) rather than for the native Irish (and Roman Catholic) peasantry anyway: Changing that factor "plausibly" would require a POD that resulted in a lot less unrest amongst the province's natives during the 16th-18th centuries, and the only ways that I can see of doing that without just invoking an ASB would have bred such big butterflies that you'd really need to start the timeline back then in order to keep track of them properly.



Oh, and before any "Irish" Americans amonst you start trying to label that allocation of land to settlers as an "atrocity", consider that it was still a far better treatment than the USA's colonist-descended population gave to most of their country's native peoples...

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Land and factory owners willing to hand out a bit of food for very cheap labour, they're not moving there to set up farms, they're moving because they're starving and there's more jobs in the North. Of course most emigrate to Britain or America, but enough of them just find the move north easier.

Plus a little Protestant charity came through. It wasn't so bad that there was a huge government response, or even the limited one from OTL, hence charitable organisations deal with a lot of it, and a lot of them are run by Presbyterians as charities pretty big with them (AIRC).

[Simreeve]

Originally Posted by Revolutionary Todyo

Land and factory owners willing to hand out a bit of food for very cheap labour, they're not moving there to set up farms, they're moving because they're starving and there's more jobs in the North. Of course most emigrate to Britain or America, but enough of them just find the move north easier.

Plus a little Protestant charity came through. It wasn't so bad that there was a huge government response, or even the limited one from OTL, hence charitable organisations deal with a lot of it, and a lot of them are run by Presbyterians as charities pretty big with them (AIRC).

I see. Well, maybeso...

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Originally Posted by Simreeve

I see. Well, maybeso...

What do you mean maybe so? It's the scenario and it makes sense.

[Simreeve]

Originally Posted by Revolutionary Todyo

What do you mean maybe so? It's the scenario and it makes sense.

It's just that -- going by how things were arranged in OTL Ulster, and how sectarian animosity has worked thereabouts through the years, I'm not sure either how many of the new jobs created by the protestant settlers would actually be made open to those farmers rather than kept for other members of the protestant community (or even for newer protestant immigrants from Scotland) or how much charity the Presbyterians of those days would have given to Catholics without requiring them to convert... Bigotry doesn't always make sense.