Empire Of The 'Stans

[WestVirginiaRebel]

The premise here is that Russia never becomes a major player in Eurasian affairs and the "Stans"-Afghanistan, Kasakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc-are able to form a tribal "Empire" of their own instead-perhaps ruled by Attila's descendents, and later the Kazakhs themselves? Could such an Empire then become a counterweight to the Ottoman Empire, thus hastening its decline?

[RGB]

Attilla?

How about "no Chingiz" resulting in Eternal Kwarazm?

[yourworstnightmare]

Behold the mighty Uzbekh Empire!! (Don't know why, but a Uzbekh Empire sounds like a lot of fun).

[rcduggan]

Originally Posted by WestVirginiaRebel

The premise here is that Russia never becomes a major player in Eurasian affairs and the "Stans"-Afghanistan, Kasakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc-are able to form a tribal "Empire" of their own instead-perhaps ruled by Attila's descendents, and later the Kazakhs themselves? Could such an Empire then become a counterweight to the Ottoman Empire, thus hastening its decline?

Do you know anything about A) Russian history, or B)the butterfly effect?
If there is a POD with Attila, there will not be any kind of Ottoman Empire. Also, please learn about Central Asian history before posting these (and I don't mean read a few Wikipedia articles... ). The Turks were not a major power in the region until the tenth and eleventh centuries.

Originally Posted by yourworstnightmare

Behold the mighty Uzbekh Empire!! (Don't know why, but a Uzbekh Empire sounds like a lot of fun).

And remarkably like OTL...

[Grey Wolf]

IMHO the best way to prevent the rise of Russia is to keep it divided between smaller states. Maintaining the strength of the Golden Horde might achieve this, or possibly a duality of powers arising, which may require some sort of change in succession law.

I don't know enough to comment beyond vague generalities I'm afraid

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by WestVirginiaRebel

The premise here is that Russia never becomes a major player in Eurasian affairs and the "Stans"-Afghanistan, Kasakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc-are able to form a tribal "Empire" of their own instead-perhaps ruled by Attila's descendents, and later the Kazakhs themselves? Could such an Empire then become a counterweight to the Ottoman Empire, thus hastening its decline?

First of all, by the time the Ottomans were around, the Stans weren't tribal, they were the center of a high civilizations, albeit lately devastated by the Mongols. If they had coalesced into an empire, they would be in no direct competition with the Ottomans, and most likely allies.

[Elidor]

Timur-Wank?
or,

Mughal Reconquista? (After all, Hindustan is a 'stan)

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by Elidor

Timur-Wank?
or,

Mughal Reconquista? (After all, Hindustan is a 'stan)

Well, Timur was based in the 'Stans (you can't get much more Central Asia-ey than Samarkand), and he definitely slowed down the Ottomans...

[RGB]

One thing to consider is agricultural base.

Desertification is a long-term trend in Central Asia, even though Soviet Cotton exacerbated the situation somewhat. So the high point of the Empire of the Stans would have to be on the cusp of easy power projection but before it becomes too dry.

I'm not sure about precise numbers, however. It's just something to think about.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by RGB

One thing to consider is agricultural base.

Desertification is a long-term trend in Central Asia, even though Soviet Cotton exacerbated the situation somewhat. So the high point of the Empire of the Stans would have to be on the cusp of easy power projection but before it becomes too dry.

I'm not sure about precise numbers, however. It's just something to think about.

I don't think it was every really a garden spot - it's wealth came from trade, and it's military power from extensive steppe for horse nomads. Since the OP specifically mentions the Ottomans, the POD has to be no earlier than 1300 or so, so I think the impact of dessication is relatively small, but not insignificant. Probably greater would be the post-Columbian rerouting of trade.

[rcduggan]

Originally Posted by RGB

One thing to consider is agricultural base.

Desertification is a long-term trend in Central Asia, even though Soviet Cotton exacerbated the situation somewhat. So the high point of the Empire of the Stans would have to be on the cusp of easy power projection but before it becomes too dry.

I'm not sure about precise numbers, however. It's just something to think about.

IIRC Transoxiana was pretty fertile until the Mongols destroyed Khwarezm. So there could be a POD similar to Max's, no Genghis Khan leads to no Mongol invasions.