400 BCE: Haman's Final Solution succeeds

c400 BCE all the Jews were under King Ahaseurus. His vizier, the Amolekite Haman, came close to exterminating the entire Jewish race, if not for the intervention of Esther.

WI Haman's plan had succeeeded, & the Jews had been totally eliminated?
What would have been the immediate implications, and historical changes in a Judenrein world 350 BCE- 1BCE, if any?

Ahasuerus is spelt Ahashwerosh in the Hebrew, = Old Persian Khshaya_rsh, better known in Greek as Xerxes.

The same as if the Jews were eliminated at any point before 33 AD.

The historical importance of the Jews is their nature as the first, and for a long time only, group to believe in a single, omnipotent God. If they were eliminated before Christianity could take inspiration from them, the world would continue without confessional monotheism and be radically different. If they were eliminated afterward, a wide variety of things could happen.

I'd imagine Zoroastrianism would continue to develop, Manicheism would still exist but be without its largest recruitment group, and neither would have the historical impact of Islam or Christianity.

Also, Antiochus would be stronger longer, without a Maccabean conflict weakening him and giving Rome a pretext to attack him. And Rome would hold Judea much more securely, without any groups that could get away with rejecting the Imperial cult.

essentially, this POD is asking, what would the world be like without Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. wow. The differences would be major, from Scandinavia to India to Africa..... how could you even begin to guess what history would turn out like? no Islamic conquests, no HRE, no Crusades, no Reformation/Counter-Reformation......

One thing is that a small remnant of the Jewish people would escape (10% is a nice number). This MiniDiaspora might have some interesting consequences. They might have some cultural influence at various places (eg. Rome).

Without Judaism monotheism would emerge from Platonism as an Impersonal One at the center of everything. This is not that far removed from some later Hindu theology.

The mystery cults of the Roman Empire might slowly intertwine into a convoluted syncretism whose exoteric central deity is Serpais but leaves esoteric room for Mithras and others and has a Neoplatonic theological core.

No Christinainity. Mohammed might invent a reformed Arabian paganism that downplays goddesse. Not seeing this as more than local in impact.

But what about God?

Just to play devil's (or God's, really) advocate...

All of this of course presumes that religious movements are created by human cultural and historical factors, not divine inspiration. Christianity, by its doctrine, does require the preexistence of Judaism. Islam does not. To take Mohammad at his word, his revelation was given to him directly by God. Although it's my understanding Moslems believe Islam is the perfect revelation of God imperfectly presented in the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, they do not believe he borrowed or adopted his concepts from Christians and Jews. If one believes in a monotheistic God, there is no reason to believe he would not have ensured his message reached mankind one way or another regardless of what happened to the Hebrew people in antiquity.

Well, for one thing, this entire made-up story of Esther wouldn't be discussed right now as if it were true.

zoomar said:

All of this of course presumes that religious movements are created by human cultural and historical factors, not divine inspiration.

Click to expand...

Indeed, and its a safe asumption to make I believe.

I'm certain earth would be barely recognizable without its major religions. They were the driving force of the west. I predict that down the line, the first thriving modern civilizations would appear in India ITTL.

two things
1. ester is not real?
2. who's to say the west may not still come up with crazy ass religions that 'drive' the area to 'greatness'?

The Hebrew scripture is the only one that boldly claims that God appeared to an entire nation of thousands. The NT & Koran merely claim that God appeared to Jesus & Mohammed alone in their tents without witnesses, akin to Joseph Smith etc.

Firstly, assuming the Book of Esther is accurate, it tells of how the Jews killed a large # of people coming to kill them. If Haman tried to pull a Holocaust, the Jews wouldn't merely roll over and die.

You'd have all sorts of rioting, unrest, possibly even a civil war (if some faction decides to take advantage of the chaos), and that could mean that various enemies of Persia will pounce. The Greeks, various tribes of steppe nomads, etc. could all try to get a piece of the action.

you know, that sounds like fun!

cow defender said:

two things
1. ester is not real?
2. who's to say the west may not still come up with crazy ass religions that 'drive' the area to 'greatness'?

Click to expand...

Of course she is not real! The story of Ester is just another mythological story with no or very little foundation in reality. Of course Xerxes did not want to exterminate the Jews, anti-semitism didn't exist back then. He was just a conquerer that whipped the Jews asses so, as always, they started to victimze themselves, but really, Xerxes wasn't any harder against the Jews then any other conquerd people.

zoomar said:

Just to play devil's (or God's, really) advocate...

All of this of course presumes that religious movements are created by human cultural and historical factors, not divine inspiration. Christianity, by its doctrine, does require the preexistence of Judaism. Islam does not.

Click to expand...

Actually it does. God delivered message to Muhammad because they corrupted His word. Also if you look at first sura it says something like "Lead us on right path/on the path of those who You showed mercy to/and not on the path of those who angered You or have strayed" with those who angered Him and strayed are Christians and Jews though I forgot which are which.

Not to mention Islam recognises 250(0?) prophets with Adam being first and Muhammad last and recognises many prophets from OT as well (Moses....)

"as always, they started to victimze themselves"

What?