That Forgotten Revolution

In 1780, a second revolution erupted in the New World. It took place across Spain's colonies in the southern Andes and its goal was the re-establishment of the Incas - 240 years gone.

Unlike the (north) American Revolution, the Andean Revolution was completely botched. It was started by the actions of a single man, Tupac Amaru, with only local support and zero military ability. The revolutionaries failed to take Cuzco, their first objective, and the leaders of the revolt were captured, executed, and their bodies destroyed before five months had passed. Large scale uprisings inspired by the first were annihilated piecemeal. By the end, the entire thing had degenerated into a viscious racial and class war. Except for pure-blooded Indians, most of the Revolution's initial supporters were driven into supporting the Spanish. It was over by 1783, having accomplished nothing beyond killing a few thousand Creoles and Mestizos along with a 100,000 Indians.

What if?

Might as well point it out right away: The Andeans had nowhere near the likelihood of success that the Yankees did.

There was no military tradition in the colonies. There was no organization among the rebels. Logistics were terrible. Much fewer people had weapons. The revolts took place only in the interior, so support by foreign powers is almost completely out of the question. Until he rebelled, Tupac Amaru was just one of the many Indian nobles in Peru; he was an unknown. The Spanish had troops to spare because they were on the winning side of the war.

That said, I think they had an outside chance, especially if the revolution broke out in a different way. I'll try to expand on this later. For now, what thinkest ye?

A generation Later Simon Bolivar lead a sucessfull one -- So the right buildup in 1770's.....

DuQuense said:

A generation Later Simon Bolivar lead a sucessfull one -- So the right buildup in 1770's.....

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Simon Bolivar was born in a wealthy family and traveled all over Europe when he was young. That allowed him to learn things about military orginization and logistics that the Incas were ignorant about. It made it much easier for him then the Incas.

This illustrates an interesting point. Had the ARW failed, would we simply have won our freedom a few decades later, making the failure a footnote?

Okay... I think I'll base this off a Great Man. It probably has to be Tupac Amaru himself (or rather, a vaguely similar person with the same name). Let's say Tupac Amaru (whose Christian name was José Gabriel Condocanqui) fights for Spain during the Seven Years War, where he develops an understanding of matters military.

@tom - Well, maybe. If so, I suspect we would have had a mish-mash of little squabbling countries more like Latin America. BUT, England was on the rise and Spain declining. Plus the occupation of Spain by the French had a lot to do with the independence movement.

I'll try a preliminary timeline tonight, hopefully. No time right now

Just a Great Man won't do it. You need more development on the ground first.
Some thing like the US's founding fathers, & the Committes of Corespodence, to have a sence of togetherness between the places.

Even if {1776 & all that } had failed {some kind} of US indepence was ineviable, given the interlocking devolopments happening at the time.

Tupac Amaru (José Gabriel Condocanqui) (1742-1797)
Leader of the PERUVIAN REVOLUTION (1779-1784) and first INCA, second dynasty, of TAHUANTINSUYU. Fought for Spain in Havana during SEVEN YEARS WAR. Tupac Amaru assumed his position as chief of Tinta, south of CUZCO, upon his father's death in 1770. [1] Tupac Amaru also continued his father's effort to use his links to the Inca dynasty to develop an Indian base of support and his Spanish connections to attract Creole and Mestizo people to his reformist political movement that espoused Inca nationalism, fairer taxes, better courts, and a more open interregional economy. In late 1779, reacting to economic abuses, Tupac Amaru plotted the execution of the local Spanish corregidor and then recruited a large indigenous army, led by non-Indian, middle-level, provincial leaders, which occupied much of the highland area, eventually capturing Cuzco. [2] Tupac Amaru suffered nearly fatal injuries in 1780 and again in 1783, but managed to avoid kidnapping and assassination attempts throughout the war. He played a significant role in both attacks on Cuzco and the siege of Lima that decided the war. [3] During his reign as Inca, Tupac Amaru presided over the rebirth of Tahuantinsuyu (the land of four quarters), oversaw the revival of the Peruvian faith, reformed the courts, and signed a concordat with the Pope.

[1] Actually decided to have his father be my great man - José just builds on his dad's work. Basically, he lives longer and starts a movement to reform Spanish colonialism stronger and more organized than in OTL.

[2] Unlike OTL, other groups were organized enough to rebel early on. The most significant, outside Lima, prevented Spanish troops from piercing the interior until Cuzco had fallen. The capture of the old capital was enough impetus to bring over practically all of Alta Peru (Bolivia) and Baja Peru (Peru) except for the coastal cities. The initial Spanish counter-attack in 1780 failed to take Cuzco after a short siege. Cuzco would switch hands twice more before the end of the war.

[3] Spain (under concentrated British pressure) ducked out of the general war early, leaving the English-speaking revolutionaries to fend for themselves. Spain launched a two-pronged assault towards Cuzco in 1781-1782 from Lima and up the trans-continental route from Buenos Aires. The advance from Lima was defeated, but the southern army reached and captured Cuzco, Tupac Amaru only barely escaping. The city was recaptured at the end of 1782, but the Spanish could not be driven from positions surrounding the city. The rest of the war was significantly slower, with the Spanish attempting to expand their 1000 mile salient into the Andes and the Peruvians forcing coastal towns. The war was finally ended when the fall of Lima made continuing the conflict impossible.

More later. Criticism welcome.

I had the revolt break out earlier so that it could attract British attention and support as soon as possible. Once the whole southern Andes are united against Spain, the Brits decide to force the Spaniards out of the war. They wreak havoc on Spanish plans, and when they narrowly succeed in taking Nicaragua (and its Pacific port), they are able to develop a stronger naval presence in the Pacific than the Spanish for a short time. The Spaniards make an agreement with the British to stop helping each other lose their colonies eventually, but by then I think it will have been enough to give the Peruvians their shot. What do you guys think?

Anyway, the British actions will make for a different war elsewhere. The British advance into the southern colonies has to be stopped, which would probably be a saving grace for Cornwallis. When the Spanish drop out, the French and Americans will probably panic. The most they can do in the short run is to make a grab at New York. Just a second...heads...they take it. That should be enough to end the general war in a peace-in-place. And that means that the borders of the US in the south are: North Carolina-South Carolina border to Indian Line, the Indian Line through North Carolina and Virginia, and then the Ohio.

Back later. Please comment.

So the US doesn't expand to the mississippi?

Oh, good lord. Guess what? Britain gets to face two republics in the 1790's.

"So the US doesn't expand to the mississippi?

Oh, good lord. Guess what? Britain gets to face two republics in the 1790's."

Well, they do have the Old Northwest, but I take your point. What interests me is what this is going to do to the map of North America. Neither North Carolina nor Virginia can expand west like they could in our timeline, and Georgia's on the other side. That only leaves New York and Pennsylvania with viable claims on the Indian lands, and the other states might not feel like letting them have those. Virginia is still too big compared to everyone else, but since most of Kentucky is British most of OTL West Virginia will have to be let go if there's going to be a workable state. Overall the US may have a much smaller norm for state size.

And then there are all those American settlers in central Kentucky and eastern Tennessee that are on the wrong side of the line and have no intention of moving...

As for the 1790s...probably. I want the French Revolution (or at least the Napoleonic Wars) to be somewhat different, but I have no idea just how yet. Any suggestions?

I'll see if I can throw together a map or two later.

Have king Louis manage to escape to London [IIRC it was almost a Fluke that he was caught OTL]. Unhappy in England he Moves in with his Cousin in Madrid.
A Revolutionary/Napolean France Without Spain as a Ally.

Poo.

On the bright side, this is the first timeline in ages for which I made copies on my computer of my posts. A moment, if you will.

Let's see...

Again,

Blue = Spanish
Orange = Portuguese
Purple = Dutch
Green = French
Stucco = Tahuantinsuyan
White = Unclaimed, inhabited only by Patagonian tribes

so Argentina borders the Pacific Ocean?

You will kindly notice the black line running between Argentina and Chile. The date is c1785. At this point, both of them are still under Spanish rule, so the most one could say would be that the Spanish holdings in southern South America border both Oceans.

Premature

This war destroyed the remnants of the Indian leadership. So if it was delayed until the Napoleonic war, it would have been considerably more successful, as the Bolivarian war was. The population of Latin America was still recovering from the Columbian Disease Holocaust. Maybe a war in 1805, when the French revolution is going strong but Spain is not yet involved? The then Spanish King and Crown Prince were complete idiots.
By 1805 the US is an independent country that can fight. The Yankee traders may decide to ship guns to some port that the rebels capture. Perhaps the idea is not just to fight a war, but also to form different language group nations in Latin America? Not so monolingual Spanish.
Also, if they nitrate deposits of the Atacama have just been discovered, the rebels will have access to lots of gunpowder. If they can get sulfur. Charcoal is everywhere. So is potash. They need some way to move sulfur from pyrites to the charcoal and the potash and the nitrates.

I'll think about it.

Admiral Matt said:

In 1780, a second revolution erupted in the New World. It took place across Spain's colonies in the southern Andes and its goal was the re-establishment of the Incas - 240 years gone.

Click to expand...

interesting.

Keenir said:

interesting.

Click to expand...

Oh boy, now we have a copy cat thead necromancer...