Valamyr
Banned
There wass a strong case to be made in favor of launching Barbarossa as a surprise operation for Germany in 1941. The soviets lost all their planes on the ground, the soviet high command was almost paralysed for a week, a week during which the bulk of the red army was trapped and torn apart on the border.
However, the Soviets, Stalin mainly, was terrified of the possibility of a conflict before his army was ready. There are numerous reports of this, and the strongest proof is probably how he faithfully delivered all he was supposed to to Germany while there was often no reciprocity. He also dabbled into pure denial as credible reports of an invasion came his way.
This raises the question, WI if the Nazis had posed Stalin an ultimatum before the invasion, demanding the secession of the territories they saw vital to their empire, namely everything Stalin took since 1939 plus a good share of the Ukraine, including Crimea? Though its not part of Hitler's usual character to do so, he was still largely rational at this point and might try this approach if he felt the Werhmacht was better spent elsewhere, or if he was already tangled up up in a Mediteranean strategy.
What I read on the topic seems to hint that the Kremlin might have given in. Of course, this means keeping the red army, and its thousands of tanks and planes intact, as it would be merely a pull back. But it might mean no war with the USSR before another two years, two years during which trade could still happen between the titans, and two years during which anything could happen on the western front. Might even avoid conflict in the longer term, if the countries are otherwise occupied.
What do you guys think of the possibility? Also, its more likely given Hitler's character to issue such an ultimatum a few days AFTER the battles began, when the Soviet shell is cracking on all sides. Only problem is that this point, he might think the ultimatum is a bad idea because he is clearly winning. Given Stalin almost comatic stupor at the time, what would be the reply?
However, the Soviets, Stalin mainly, was terrified of the possibility of a conflict before his army was ready. There are numerous reports of this, and the strongest proof is probably how he faithfully delivered all he was supposed to to Germany while there was often no reciprocity. He also dabbled into pure denial as credible reports of an invasion came his way.
This raises the question, WI if the Nazis had posed Stalin an ultimatum before the invasion, demanding the secession of the territories they saw vital to their empire, namely everything Stalin took since 1939 plus a good share of the Ukraine, including Crimea? Though its not part of Hitler's usual character to do so, he was still largely rational at this point and might try this approach if he felt the Werhmacht was better spent elsewhere, or if he was already tangled up up in a Mediteranean strategy.
What I read on the topic seems to hint that the Kremlin might have given in. Of course, this means keeping the red army, and its thousands of tanks and planes intact, as it would be merely a pull back. But it might mean no war with the USSR before another two years, two years during which trade could still happen between the titans, and two years during which anything could happen on the western front. Might even avoid conflict in the longer term, if the countries are otherwise occupied.
What do you guys think of the possibility? Also, its more likely given Hitler's character to issue such an ultimatum a few days AFTER the battles began, when the Soviet shell is cracking on all sides. Only problem is that this point, he might think the ultimatum is a bad idea because he is clearly winning. Given Stalin almost comatic stupor at the time, what would be the reply?