John 'Black Jack' Pershing was appointed by Pres Wilson to command American forces slated for combat in France, in May 1917. WI he hadn't been appointed to this command position ? Who might've led the US army in France instead, and how much of a difference in strategy and tactics on the Western Front would an alternate American commanding gen have made ?
WI Pershing not appointed to command AEF ?
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
Depends on who gets the job, I guess. Would the Anglo-French call for US recruits to be funnelled into their militaries rather than an independent AEF be followed without Pershing?
carlton_bach said:
Who did the US have other than old Black Jack? I don't really recall any other senior officers with any kind of reputation (Patton was just a colonel, if I'm not quite mistaken, at the time, so...).
I don't think American politicians or brass would like having their troops dispersed among foreign units, even without Pershings opposition to the idea!
An interesting side effect could be more focus on tank warfare without a prominent Pershing in the time after the Great War. In OTL he dissolved the Tank Corps...
Best regards!
- Bluenote.
The brits and frogs DID call for US battalions to be incorporated directly into their armies, and vociferously opposed the formation of independent American units. Their logic wasn't too bad, actually (corps and army-level formations required LOTS more men and shipping space, and both were in short supply, whereas just shipping over battalions would provide rapid reinforcement at a much lower cost), but it was a nonstarter as the Wilson administration opposed the idea from the moment it was broached. Without an independent American army, it would have been difficult for the Americans to make any serious claims when the time came to divvy up the peace....and Wilson had very, very clear ideas about what 'we' (really 'he') wanted from that...
David S Poepoe
Banned
The most likely first choice, if he hadn't died unexpectedly, would have been Frederick Funston a celebrated hero from the Philippine Pacification, he captured Aquinaldo, and responsible for dynamiting much of San Francisco following the earthquake.
US troops DID serve as reinforcements to Brit, French units
Scott, as I've mentioned in previous posts, despite Pershing's and Wilson's supposedly strict policy for an all-American army on the WF, there were some instances of pragmatism on Black Jack's part when he authorised the detachment of smaller AEF formations to gain combat experience alongside seasoned British and French units, such as approx. 8 platoons of the 33rd (Prairie Div, Illinois NG) being attached to the AIF in July 1918 for the Battle of Hamel (very 1st time Australian and US troops fought side-by-side), the 27th (EMPIRE STATE, NY NG) and 30th (OLD HICKORY, NC NG) also being temporarily assigned to the British 4th Army in early 1918, and the entire 93rd (BLOODY HAND) (Colored) Div being given to the French army. According to THE UNKNOWN SOLDIERS by Barbeau and Henri (1974), which is all about the African-American experience in WWI, there was also a proposal to assign the 92nd BUFFALO Div when it 1st arrived in France to British command (palming off the unwanted black outfit), but this was rejected out of hand.
Scott, as I've mentioned in previous posts, despite Pershing's and Wilson's supposedly strict policy for an all-American army on the WF, there were some instances of pragmatism on Black Jack's part when he authorised the detachment of smaller AEF formations to gain combat experience alongside seasoned British and French units, such as approx. 8 platoons of the 33rd (Prairie Div, Illinois NG) being attached to the AIF in July 1918 for the Battle of Hamel (very 1st time Australian and US troops fought side-by-side), the 27th (EMPIRE STATE, NY NG) and 30th (OLD HICKORY, NC NG) also being temporarily assigned to the British 4th Army in early 1918, and the entire 93rd (BLOODY HAND) (Colored) Div being given to the French army. According to THE UNKNOWN SOLDIERS by Barbeau and Henri (1974), which is all about the African-American experience in WWI, there was also a proposal to assign the 92nd BUFFALO Div when it 1st arrived in France to British command (palming off the unwanted black outfit), but this was rejected out of hand.
True enough, Pershing wasn't an absolutist (Wilson was, but he was often open to being led to rationality) on assigning troops, but he was a bulldog when it came to the core principle. In 1918, when the situation was desparate, he still insisted on deploying the army as an army.
Funston was actually quite a General it seems - It was a shame he died in 1917 (being only 51). He was Pershings superior during the Mexico campaing and would have made the perfect US commmander in Europe I'd say!David S Poepoe said:
But if not Funston, then who?
Regards!
- Bluenote.