modern southron secession

Straha · Mar 7, 2004

is there anyway with a post 1900 preferably post 1930 POD for the american south to secede again? Bonus poitns if the secession is a quebec style referendum. NEgative poitns for violence. No poitns for a warthat deestroys the USA. Could we see a secession if nationalist parties that recruited both white and black appeared in the south durign the great depression then spread and grow in strengh. THe south stays mre conservastive thna OTL i nthat itmeline leading ot no southern strategy. Without politics catering ot southron conservatism, nixon legalizes the soft drugs and does a harsh cmapaign agfainst heroin,cocaine and crack. By the late 1970's dissatisfaction with being ruled from washing has become protests in the states that seceded durign the civil war,olkahoma and kentucky. During the ealry part of 1980, a refernedum is held and an obvious majority vote to secede. After reagen is inaugerated with bigger defeats for carter than IOL, the deal is made and the confederate states of america isn now an independent country of its own. The sucess of the referendum leads to the sucess of the one in qubec thast year.

Locke · Apr 19, 2007

Straha said:
is there anyway with a post 1900 preferably post 1930 POD for the american south to secede again? Bonus poitns if the secession is a quebec style referendum. NEgative poitns for violence. No poitns for a warthat deestroys the USA. Could we see a secession if nationalist parties that recruited both white and black appeared in the south durign the great depression then spread and grow in strengh. THe south stays mre conservastive thna OTL i nthat itmeline leading ot no southern strategy. Without politics catering ot southron conservatism, nixon legalizes the soft drugs and does a harsh cmapaign agfainst heroin,cocaine and crack. By the late 1970's dissatisfaction with being ruled from washing has become protests in the states that seceded durign the civil war,olkahoma and kentucky. During the ealry part of 1980, a refernedum is held and an obvious majority vote to secede. After reagen is inaugerated with bigger defeats for carter than IOL, the deal is made and the confederate states of america isn now an independent country of its own. The sucess of the referendum leads to the sucess of the one in qubec thast year.

One word: Spellcheck

Alayta · Apr 20, 2007

Was that worth the necromancy?

Dean_the_Young · Apr 20, 2007

locke said:
One word: Spellcheck

He was banned before even I got here. He can't do anything about it.

Though, now that the idea has been brought back up, I use my great powers of being southern born to declare it ASB.

nunya · Apr 20, 2007

locke said:
One word: Spellcheck

Yeah.I cant read anything this guy is writing.While were talking about southern seccession,however,you may be interested that OTL there is a movement already for southern secession.
Wiki

Dean_the_Young · Apr 20, 2007

Incredibally marginal, all of them. California is more likely to seceed than the South, what with Schwarzenegger's constant (incorrect) boast that CA has the 6th largest world economy and that California is a "nation-state".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17996845/site/newsweek/

Which isn't to say that California is going to try and seceed any time soon, but the fact that a high state official is carrying on like that is worrying. One reason that the south isn't going to seceed anytime soon is because it receives the most federal aid of all the states, and thus has little economic stability outside the US. Come to that neither does CA (the economy figure is old, outdated, and rejects many cost factors such as military defense and such), but the constant lauding of CA as a potential economic power allows the idea of secession to stay more vibrant than some wackos in the backwoods of Virginia.

Roddoss72 · Apr 20, 2007

Unfortunately Straha fails to realise that it is illegal for any state of the United States to cecede form the Union and any state that tries would be forced back either by political, ecconomic or military means, that is the main reason Peuto Rico (Sorry if i have spelt it incorrectly) refuses to acede to the US, once in there is no getting out.

Dean_the_Young · Apr 20, 2007

Roddoss72 said:
Unfortunately Straha fails to realise that it is illegal for any state of the United States to cecede form the Union and any state that tries would be forced back either by political, ecconomic or military means, that is the main reason Peuto Rico (Sorry if i have spelt it incorrectly) refuses to acede to the US, once in there is no getting out.

Dude, look at the date posted already. He posted this 3 years ago, before he got banned. He can't reply already. Stop addressing him. This was just a really bad case of thread necromancy of a thread that (rightly) got no posts before locke did the unholy to it.

Max Sinister · Apr 21, 2007

Dean_the_Young said:
Incredibally marginal, all of them. California is more likely to seceed than the South, what with Schwarzenegger's constant (incorrect) boast that CA has the 6th largest world economy and that California is a "nation-state".

Hey! Maybe he has some plans? Since he can't become POTUS, he wants to be head of independent California? Anyone wants to write an FH?

Dutchie · Apr 21, 2007

Dean_the_Young said:
One reason that the south isn't going to seceed anytime soon is because it receives the most federal aid of all the states, and thus has little economic stability outside the US. Come to that neither does CA (the economy figure is old, outdated, and rejects many cost factors such as military defense and such), but the constant lauding of CA as a potential economic power allows the idea of secession to stay more vibrant than some wackos in the backwoods of Virginia.

If more federal aid means less chance of secession, why is Quebec always given independence in AH posts? There is a very large net-flow of money into Quebec from the rest of Canada, and it came within a hair of seceeding in 1995.

If anything, recieving more aid implies that conditions are worse than in places not recieving aid. Worse economic/political conditions are breeding grounds for secession - why would cushy-life Californians (as examle) want to mess things up? Hard-life Mississippians (as example) might just be convinced that their probelms are all the fault ot "those damned Feds in Washington".... that's what leads to secession, someone wanting to be the bigger fish in a smaller pond by blaming "someone else" for all the problems in life and convincing the other fish to leave with him.

Dean_the_Young · Apr 21, 2007

Dutchie said:
If more federal aid means less chance of secession, why is Quebec always given independence in AH posts? There is a very large net-flow of money into Quebec from the rest of Canada, and it came within a hair of seceeding in 1995.

If anything, recieving more aid implies that conditions are worse than in places not recieving aid. Worse economic/political conditions are breeding grounds for secession - why would cushy-life Californians (as examle) want to mess things up? Hard-life Mississippians (as example) might just be convinced that their probelms are all the fault ot "those damned Feds in Washington".... that's what leads to secession, someone wanting to be the bigger fish in a smaller pond by blaming "someone else" for all the problems in life and convincing the other fish to leave with him.

Different political scene would be my guess. Perhaps also Quebec could conceivably be economic self-sufficient?

The South is not just the beneficiary of the most government aid; the South is dependent on it. Virginia, for example, has most of the government bueracracy employed. The city I live in farther south, we are a R&D site for the space program, and our economy is dependent of federal contracts. Also, since there is relatively little industry in the South, an independent South after breaking away would quickly die an economic death, as there would be massive unemployment and no little non-federally funded infrastructure to base the economy.

Locke · Apr 21, 2007

Dean_the_Young said:
Dude, look at the date posted already. He posted this 3 years ago, before he got banned. He can't reply already. Stop addressing him. This was just a really bad case of thread necromancy of a thread that (rightly) got no posts before locke did the unholy to it.

Im so sorry! I didn't see the fine-print that said "Banned". I was just extra bored one day and started roaming, saw this, and thought it was interesting. But who knows? No body can undertsand what it says, so itll be a great mystery.

MerryPrankster · Apr 21, 2007

Dean_the_Young said:
Different political scene would be my guess. Perhaps also Quebec could conceivably be economic self-sufficient?

The South is not just the beneficiary of the most government aid; the South is dependent on it. Virginia, for example, has most of the government bueracracy employed. The city I live in farther south, we are a R&D site for the space program, and our economy is dependent of federal contracts. Also, since there is relatively little industry in the South, an independent South after breaking away would quickly die an economic death, as there would be massive unemployment and no little non-federally funded infrastructure to base the economy.

Do you live in Huntsville? I've called the paper there about jobs and they're not hiring.

Very little industry in the South? Are you sure? A lot of foreign auto companies are setting up plants here, and many industries are moving in from up north.

One word: Sunbelt.

Dean_the_Young · Apr 21, 2007

MerryPrankster said:
Do you live in Huntsville? I've called the paper there about jobs and they're not hiring.

What kind of job did you ask about? Technology jobs, or service/construction/industrial?

With the semi-recent BRAC, several thousand jobs from various military groups are being moved to Huntsville in the next couple years, so the service industries are going to get a real kick in the next couple years. The local housing market is mostly unaffected by the "bubble burst", they're putting more shopping malls here and there to sell to the incoming residents. Also, more schools and such are going to be built to teach the new kids. Huntsville is undergoing some expansion right now. Infact, a new house is being built across the road from my house.

Very little industry in the South? Are you sure? A lot of foreign auto companies are setting up plants here, and many industries are moving in from up north.

Speaking relatively, of course. We have low labor costs, but except for the ocasional natural resource here and there, there isn't much reason to invest in most of the South. The lower Apalachian coal mines are great, and Birmingham's famous for steel, but we aren't the rust belt around New England and we aren't the great plains bread basket and we aren't the west coast (thank god

).

One word: Sunbelt.

We have cash crops, but they don't have the power/prestige/revenue they used to. Back in the day before the Civil War, when cotton was king and southern exports brought in the most revenue for the US...

And locke, don't sweat it. I have my own embaressing necromancy somewhere. I was actually snapping more a Roddoss72 for continuing to address Straha despite it being mentioned he was banned. I apologize for snapping at you too, Roddoss. Just, try not to talk to nonexistant people again, ok?

MerryPrankster · Apr 22, 2007

Dean_the_Young said:
What kind of job did you ask about? Technology jobs, or service/construction/industrial?

With the semi-recent BRAC, several thousand jobs from various military groups are being moved to Huntsville in the next couple years, so the service industries are going to get a real kick in the next couple years. The local housing market is mostly unaffected by the "bubble burst", they're putting more shopping malls here and there to sell to the incoming residents. Also, more schools and such are going to be built to teach the new kids. Huntsville is undergoing some expansion right now. Infact, a new house is being built across the road from my house.

Newspaper jobs--I'm a journalism major.

What's BRAC?

Dean_the_Young · Apr 22, 2007

MerryPrankster said:
Newspaper jobs--I'm a journalism major.

What's BRAC?

Base Relocation And Closure, or something like that. Several thousand jobs were relocated from across the country and moved to Huntsville to streamline communications and such. I believe the US Army Missle Command was moved to Huntsville, amoung other things.

Here is a site of semi-recent media coverage of Huntsville, including articles on job growth and the standard of living.

http://www.huntsvillealabamausa.com/news/nat_recog.html