The Battle of The River plate: Graf Spree escapes?

WI The battle of the River Plate had ended differently, with the Graf Spree fleeing the battle to fight another day? First off, how could it do so, I'd assume it would involve sinking the Exeter. But would the continued existance of the Graf Spree do anything?

I kinda thought up this "worst-case scenario" that the Graf Spree joined The Bismarck and Prinz Eugene at the final showdown between the Bismarck and the Royal Navy. Possibly leading to a RN defeat.

Most unlikely. If the Graf Spee did escape from the British following the Battle of the River Plate exactly what sort of shape is she in? I suspect, much as following the sinking of the HMS Hood, that had she sunk HMS Exeter, that the British would have dispatched a force capable enough of dealing with her. The other British cruisers would shadow Graf Spee until she could be brought to battle.

I think it would be appropriate, as First Sea Lord, that the Admiralty detach HMS Renown and HMS Repulse to handle Graf Spee. I don't quite think she's in shape to accompany Bismarck, if that is at the same time.

Also, even if Graf Spee did escape and got back to Germany and participated in the Bismark sortie of May 1941, this might just mean more dead Germans. Although carrying 6x11 inch guns, it is arguable Graf Spee's combat value was as good as Prince Eugen - a much more modern and faster heavy cruiser. Remember, the Bismarck group did not sortie to engage the RN - it sailed to hunt merchant ships. Once discovered and slightly damaged in the Hood engagement, the purpose of the mission became just to get back to Brest safely without engaging the RN. Lutjens detached Prince Eugen early to improve her chances of getting home. He might have been tempted to keep Graf Spee around because of her much more powerful 11 inch guns and slower speed. She would have little effect once RN BB's caught up with them, which means she would also get sunk.

It might have a bad effect on the RNs morale.

C

Also discussed here previously
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discus/messages/4/4773.html

An unlikely, but possible, result

The Graf Spee's 11" guns could penetrate the cruisers' armor easily. Had Exeter gone away early in the engagement like the Hood did against Bismarck, the other two cruisers would have has a simple choice--run or die. If they stayed and fought, they would do some damage, but in either event, the Royal Navy would have had to deploy more capital ships to the South Atlantic. She might be able to sink the light cruisers, and still be a viable threat. In that event, the public reaction across the world would be rather remarkable, especially considering how close to where von Spee fought his last battle. MAJOR drain on the fast Royal navy capital ships. Hood might never meet Bismarck by the time butterflies are done flapping.
One thought that has occurred to me more than once: Had the Graf Spee had some time before Royal Navy forces would arrive, but a return home is impossible, she'd do Germany more good as a gift to Argentina than as an artificial reef.

Hi Folks!

Although Graf Spee and her sister ships were called pocket-battleships by the British, and although they carried six 11 inch guns, they are almost unable to fight real battleships. Their armor was only cruiser-style, after all, so the likeliest result when fighting Hood or Prince of Wales would be Invincible-style explosions... The ships also never were meant to fight battleships. They should be faster than those, and escape (and this worked at least for most designs until about 1935), but be better armed than all faster ships, i.e. cruisers, which they were. Furthermore, these ships were a lot slower than Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. There are good reasons why neither Lützow nor Admiral Scheer were ever considered to join the two ships!

However, these ships were good commerce raiders because their Diesel engines gave them a lot of cruising range.

Actually, Graf Spee might have tried to escape (I think British secret services placed misleading information about battleships and carriers off the coast). I would have to look up how her status concerning speed and fuel was after the battle.

But I think that it would only have meant some psychological advantage for Germany, not much more. One commerce raider more or less could not win the war.

A much more interesting scenario is one in which Gneisenau and Scharnhorst are not damaged, and thus accompany Bismarck. Although only armed with 11-inchers as well, these ships had battleship armor...

SiKitu

Even if thinking all three cruisers sent against her, I think it will be very unlikely for Graf von Spee to ever get home. There are simply too many British and French warships out there and there is a long route home to be intercepted on.

But a remarkable failure at Montevideo might give the British government considerable political problems back in London. I could imagine Chamberlain loosing a vote of confidence, but the question is if Churchill, as First Lord of the Admiralty at the time, is the first choice as PM after a notable naval failure?

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

... she'd do Germany more good as a gift to Argentina than as an artificial reef.[/QUOTE]

Interesting quasi speculation, but its highly unlikely Argentina would lean any farther toward the Axis than they already did in OTL - unless other factors change as well. USA, especially once a combatant, could never accept outright German ally in new world.

Maybe:

-Graf Spee engaged by three crusiers, but sinks them all and escapes
-Graf Spee caught by 'resoluation' (I think that was the nearby battleship) and sunk en route back home

ok, so far, only minor changes.

-RN inquest charges the fleet commander with neligence in engageing as more powerful force

-RN gets more carful on the seas

-Hood avoids bismarck until joined by five more battleships in 1941. Bismarck sunk early

Chris