Another french revolution

It´s April 1917, gen. nivelle´s strategy to move his liquor cabinet six inches closer to berlin has failed.

the 2nd division´s refusal to attack spreads like a wildfire. Gen. Petain, hero of Verdun, gets a stroke when hearing the news.

In June, a train with replacements -new recruits and reconvalescents- for a division is hold up at a paris station for two days.

The soldiers coming back from hospital tell the new recruits about the trench war and how their units were thrown in without any success.

Getting drunk on cheap wine, something in better supply than equipment and rations, the soldiers refuse to go to the front, but march to the war ministry.

This kicks of the french revolution of 1917, as angry workers etc. join.

the french government flees to bordeaux, riots start the other big towns. In Toulon, the navy is able to put down the revolution.

With the revolution ruptoring the lines of communication as well as supply, the front disintegrates.

Parts of the higher staffs want to keep the line with loyal units, esp. the colonials,
other want to crush the uprising.

The front-line divisions melt away as some simply think the war is lost, other want to join the revolution, the third group is concerned about the security of their families.

Incidents occur as french and british troops shoot at each other when armed french deserters try to loot british supplies.

Any thoughts on that?
 
The French mutinies of 1917 were not a revolutionary or even anti-war movement. Many units were unaffected and even most of those that did mutiny loudly affirmed their willingness to fight on in defense of France. They shopuld be viewed largely as a kind of military strike against further offensives. Military morale and effectiveness suffered quite badly, butthe potential for an outright revolt just wasn't there, unless the French command reacted in a ridiculously counterproductive manner, i.e. massive use of force against any and all mutineers with no concessions to their demands and an avowed determination to attack again as soon as possible. Have them do this, or have the Germans launch a major attack, and French collapse in 1917 is possible, it's not going to emerge as a natural result of teh mutinies themselves.

and, btw, viewed objectively the Nivelle offensive did not "fail", at least not by trench warfare standards. By pre-1918 levels the amount of land taken was pretty respectably, and German losses slightly exceeded french. It was teh exagerated expectations that Nivelle had built up that turned a marginal success into a strategic disiaster for France.
 
Which way do the Germans march?

If the Germans march south, the French troops rally to defend the nation, as in OTL. If the German troops march north, they both have a revolution, in Germany's case, a year earlier.
No Versailles treaty. Just everybody goes home as the Socialists take over. Britain keeps the German colonies because the French don't want them. Labor takes over in the next British election because to win support for the war the British government has widened the franchise from 30 percent to 100 percent of men.
Lots of bitterness, some against the other nations, some against the other classes. No backing for the Whites against the Reds in Russia, and Austria-Hungary goes democratic. Parts of Russia become independent, as do parts of Austria-Hungary. But since the Austrian government has not surrendered, only parts, the majority ethnic areas like Czechia and Slovakia and Bosnia-Herzegovinia. Kosovo goes with Albania, Macedonia is split between Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Romania picks up Moldova, but not Transylvania. Poland doesn't get Eastern Belarussia, Eastern Lithuania, or Northeastern Ukraine, and is linguistically homogeneous. Yugoslavia is Slovenia, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, and Montenegro. Italy picks up some of the Tyrol.
The Austrians and the Hungarians have about 45% and 30% of the vote, with the others holding the balance of power. Probably there will be a lot of Hungarian resentment over that, but since the areas with minorities are all next to countries where they aren't minorities...
 
Matthew Craw said:
The French mutinies of 1917 were not a revolutionary or even anti-war movement. Many units were unaffected and even most of those that did mutiny loudly affirmed their willingness to fight on in defense of France. They shopuld be viewed largely as a kind of military strike against further offensives. Military morale and effectiveness suffered quite badly, butthe potential for an outright revolt just wasn't there, unless the French command reacted in a ridiculously counterproductive manner, i.e. massive use of force against any and all mutineers with no concessions to their demands and an avowed determination to attack again as soon as possible. Have them do this, or have the Germans launch a major attack, and French collapse in 1917 is possible, it's not going to emerge as a natural result of teh mutinies themselves.

and, btw, viewed objectively the Nivelle offensive did not "fail", at least not by trench warfare standards. By pre-1918 levels the amount of land taken was pretty respectably, and German losses slightly exceeded french. It was teh exagerated expectations that Nivelle had built up that turned a marginal success into a strategic disiaster for France.

I have taken this as a POD for some kind of a snowball effect. Who would have thought that the military service that sparks the revolution in Germany would be the HSF which, compared to the army, was just swabbing the decks?

My point is that a combination of losing discipline, obediance to the order, strong liquor can be disastrous, especially if one is fighting a war.

- If the situation in France goes awkward, even the disruption of the schedule of the supply trains could prove critical.
 
High Seas Fleet ordered on suicide run, mutinied

Steffen said:
I have taken this as a POD for some kind of a snowball effect. Who would have thought that the military service that sparks the revolution in Germany would be the HSF which, compared to the army, was just swabbing the decks?

My point is that a combination of losing discipline, obediance to the order, strong liquor can be disastrous, especially if one is fighting a war.

- If the situation in France goes awkward, even the disruption of the schedule of the supply trains could prove critical.

The High Seas Fleet was ordered on a suicide run against the British Fleet. It mutinied. Sort of like when the French army got tired of suicide charges against machine guns.
 
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