Any way the US could have taken the Marianas and Palaus during SpanAm war?

This might be either in addition to Guam and the Philipinnes or instead of the Philippines? Related to this I wonder if the Battle of Manila could have been easily avoided but the US naval forces could have still grabbed pieces of the Spanish Pacific.
 
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During the Treaty of Paris, Spain originally wanted to give the USA just Mindanao and the Sulu Islands; or just a military base at Manila; some in the USA said that the US should only grab Luzon. However, I don't believe anybody ever in the US or Spain said "take Micronesia too" or instead of the Philippines. In fact the US paid significantly less than it should have for the Philippines. Perhaps if they had been willing to "bundle" they could have bought Micronesia as well by promising a more realistic amount of money (or to drop the requirement that Spain take Cuba's debt). Micronesia was useless and not realistically able to be governed by Spain without the Philippines, there were no other Spanish colonies in Asia, defensible ports or fortifications, or sizable population centers.

Keeping Micronesia allowed Spain to sell it to Germany the next year, 1899, for some much needed cash. Those islands were also good reason for Japan to enter WWI, what would Japan have gotten instead? Qingdao reverted to China, would Japan want it instead?
 
If the US had any reason to buy it they certainly could have had Spain add it on. One reason the USA took the PI was to keep someone else from getting them as Spain was going to get out one way or another. There were some incidents/unpleasantness with the Germans after the US took the PI but before the peace, and had also been some scuffling around Samoa. IMHO had the USA realized Germany was going to buy the islands they might very well have bought them as part of the treaty simply to keep Germany out - a concern everyone had was keeping connections between the USA & PI open so having the Germans where they ended up did cause some issues.

Short answer, if the USA had wanted them they could have gotten the Marianas and Palaus.
 
If the US had any reason to buy it they certainly could have had Spain add it on. One reason the USA took the PI was to keep someone else from getting them as Spain was going to get out one way or another. There were some incidents/unpleasantness with the Germans after the US took the PI but before the peace, and had also been some scuffling around Samoa. IMHO had the USA realized Germany was going to buy the islands they might very well have bought them as part of the treaty simply to keep Germany out - a concern everyone had was keeping connections between the USA & PI open so having the Germans where they ended up did cause some issues.

Short answer, if the USA had wanted them they could have gotten the Marianas and Palaus.

That was the mentality in USA, that someone might get it. Except, is it even within the realms of truth that some other nation can take it?

Look at otl. USA literally need to betray and surprise their former allies just to win the war in Luzon for 3 years. Imagine what would have happened if it was done with a nation with less capabilities, resources and no surprise attack.

And that was only Luzon. We are not even talking about Mindanao yet.

All I am saying that "this someone might take it" may just be all propaganda to justify invasion.
 
That was the mentality in USA, that someone might get it. Except, is it even within the realms of truth that some other nation can take it?

Look at otl. USA literally need to betray and surprise their former allies just to win the war in Luzon for 3 years. Imagine what would have happened if it was done with a nation with less capabilities, resources and no surprise attack.

And that was only Luzon. We are not even talking about Mindanao yet.

All I am saying that "this someone might take it" may just be all propaganda to justify invasion.

"The realms of truth." You, good sir, are a fine poet.:)
 
If you check the primary documents there was significant concern that one of the other European powers might occupy the PI, the German Asiatic Fleet and its appearance at Manila caused a lot of rumbling. There was also some concern about Japan as well. The USA felt that the "backward/brown" locals would not be able to fend off a major strong power (Spain being seen as minor/weak). Was this racist and not necessarily accurate in most ways, yes but that does not matter. (see Kipling's poem written to the USA encouraging them to take the PI "The White Man's Burden"). The important thing is that there were many political elements in the USA at the time who were neither total jingoists nor imperialists who felt that the USA taking the PI was important to maintain a safe route to China (for trade reasons) and/or to protect the "little brown brothers" from exploitation by a less benign power.

The insurrection was not predicted. The fact that the reality of the PI being occupied wholly or in part by a potentially rival or hostile power may not have been realistic is besides the point - the USA, and other powers, thought that this was a reasonable outcome and acted accordingly.
 
Not much to contribute, 'SpanAm War' just sounds funny. Props, OP.

Short answer: maybe, given stronger colonial 'movement' at home, could see more cessions to USA.
 
I was thinking that strategically the Marianas and Palaus could make a nice substitute for the Philippines because they provide coaling stations relatively close to East Asia and Southeast Asian trading partners but do not possess the inconvenience of a large population and its politics like the Philippines. I cannot imagine an insurgency problem of any significance in the smaller islands.

The problem I think is that inertia after any battle of Manila will tend to keep the US interested inthe fate of the Philippines. Is there any way the initial battle of Manila could have been avoided?
 
If you check the primary documents there was significant concern that one of the other European powers might occupy the PI, the German Asiatic Fleet and its appearance at Manila caused a lot of rumbling. There was also some concern about Japan as well. The USA felt that the "backward/brown" locals would not be able to fend off a major strong power (Spain being seen as minor/weak). Was this racist and not necessarily accurate in most ways, yes but that does not matter. (see Kipling's poem written to the USA encouraging them to take the PI "The White Man's Burden"). The important thing is that there were many political elements in the USA at the time who were neither total jingoists nor imperialists who felt that the USA taking the PI was important to maintain a safe route to China (for trade reasons) and/or to protect the "little brown brothers" from exploitation by a less benign power.

The insurrection was not predicted. The fact that the reality of the PI being occupied wholly or in part by a potentially rival or hostile power may not have been realistic is besides the point - the USA, and other powers, thought that this was a reasonable outcome and acted accordingly.

When ones consider the invasion of the Philippines one needs to consider the relationship of the Philippines and other powers rather USA and other powers. even if you take any relationship out the door, You also need to consider if the other powers are willing to risk invading the Philippines knowing the cost.

The only known fact at that time is that the rebel army have beaten the Spanish army without US army's help.

There is also the otl present day image partially crafted by USA that Philippines was a backward medieval Asian nation that needs saving rather a nation in technical parity with Spain which didn't exist at that time until the USA started its propaganda machine.

The rebellion in the Philippines is very well known fact even by USA even before Dewey entered Manila. Why do you think Dewey met with Aquinaldo at HK before hand?

I was thinking that strategically the Marianas and Palaus could make a nice substitute for the Philippines because they provide coaling stations relatively close to East Asia and Southeast Asian trading partners but do not possess the inconvenience of a large population and its politics like the Philippines. I cannot imagine an insurgency problem of any significance in the smaller islands.

The problem I think is that inertia after any battle of Manila will tend to keep the US interested inthe fate of the Philippines. Is there any way the initial battle of Manila could have been avoided?

Have the rebels attack and take Manila before USA. Which is more or less a Philippine wank which would require changes in leadership before the said event. By the time of siege, Manila was going to fall one way or another the question is to whom.
 
Have Bonifacio win against Aguinaldo, Aguinaldo was considered a traitor by alot of the Revolutionaries at that time.
 
eplease elaborate how Bonifacio's victory forestalls the SpanAm fleet melee of of Manila. Bonifacio's win means the PI are independent and the Spanish Pacific flotilla can no longer base in Manila and maybe has to base from Micronesia (Guam probably) before the Maine incidetn and war of 1898 rolls around?
 
eplease elaborate how Bonifacio's victory forestalls the SpanAm fleet melee of of Manila. Bonifacio's win means the PI are independent and the Spanish Pacific flotilla can no longer base in Manila and maybe has to base from Micronesia (Guam probably) before the Maine incidetn and war of 1898 rolls around?

The death of Bonifacio destroyed the morale of the revolutionary movement and many filipinos consider Aguinaldo as a traitor and some consider him a spy .
 
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The death of Bonifacio destroyed the morale of the revolutionary movement and many filipinos consider Aguinaldo as a traitor and some consider him a spy .

Bonfiacio isn't talented enough nor charismatic enough to win 1896/1897 vs Spain. Bonfiacio needs to convince and save from prison/prevent them from going to prison the talent pool/supporters/resources present in otl 1898 which either didn't join in 1896 or was caught/imprisoned by Spain in 1896.

I don't even believe bonfiacio nor Aguinaldo were the right person for the job to win vs Spain in 1896/1897.
 
Bonfiacio isn't talented enough nor charismatic enough to win 1896/1897 vs Spain. Bonfiacio needs to convince and save from prison/prevent them from going to prison the talent pool/supporters/resources present in otl 1898 which either didn't join in 1896 or was caught/imprisoned by Spain in 1896.

I don't even believe bonfiacio nor Aguinaldo were the right person for the job to win vs Spain in 1896/1897.

Bonifacio could be in the leadership but someone else could make the strategy for him like a general or a right hand who is more capable than him, but him not dying would keep the Katipunan morale high.
 
So the Filipinos could win the ground war against the Spanish across the archipelago before 1898. If so can the Spanish hold on longer in Micronesia based on Guam or will they automatically lose or sell those places and stop bothering with any Pacific naval forces at all? Trying to think if a U.S. Spanish clash is even plausible without the PI in the picture.
 
So the Filipinos could win the ground war against the Spanish across the archipelago before 1898. If so can the Spanish hold on longer in Micronesia based on Guam or will they automatically lose or sell those places and stop bothering with any Pacific naval forces at all? Trying to think if a U.S. Spanish clash is even plausible without the PI in the picture.
Could Spain reinforce the Cuba garrison instead of wasting its efforts at maintaining control over several strategically useless islands and sell them to Japan or Germany in an attempt to sweeten the countries' relations with Spain, avoid war and get some support? And, what if the Spanish Navy ships in the Philippines and at home were transferred to Cuba in 1898?
There was a relief convoy sent by the Spanish Navy in 1898 to the Philippines that was delayed at the Suez due to British neutrality and aborted. What if the convoy was sent to Cuba with necessary diversions and deceptions of a small scale done [including a raid by Pelayo]?
 
Could Spain reinforce the Cuba garrison instead of wasting its efforts at maintaining control over several strategically useless islands and sell them to Japan or Germany in an attempt to sweeten the countries' relations with Spain, avoid war and get some support? And, what if the Spanish Navy ships in the Philippines and at home were transferred to Cuba in 1898?
There was a relief convoy sent by the Spanish Navy in 1898 to the Philippines that was delayed at the Suez due to British neutrality and aborted. What if the convoy was sent to Cuba with necessary diversions and deceptions of a small scale done [including a raid by Pelayo]?

You've got what is strategically important backwards. Cuba was unimportant. It was the Philippines, or at least Manila, that was important in the all-important trade with China. It's all about China.
 
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