Alternate American Civil War Generals

I've heard the names of various Americans and foreign soldiers whom might have involved themselves in the Civil War. Some died early, others determined not to volunteer:

Some I've heard before:
Garibaldi
John Brown
William Walker
Abraham (non-President) Lincoln
Jefferson (non-President) Davis
Robert (joined the Union, not the Confederacy) Lee
Lord Cardigan
Chinese Gordon
An exiled Napoleon III
Ignacio (born in Texas) Zaragosa
Santa Ana
etc.

I try to think of various wars going on around this time whom might have some soldiers seek to volunteer:
French occupation of Mexico
Crimean War
Various Prussian wars

Who else might have joined in?

Speculate away.
 
I think Jefferson Davis wanted to be a general before they offered him the Presidency. Also, would there really be any foreign volunteers who would want to join in unless they're working for William Walker?
 
Some I've heard before:
Garibaldi
John Brown
William Walker
Abraham (non-President) Lincoln
Jefferson (non-President) Davis
Robert (joined the Union, not the Confederacy) Lee
Lord Cardigan
Chinese Gordon
An exiled Napoleon III
Ignacio (born in Texas) Zaragosa
Santa Ana

Santa Anna? Really?

Garibaldi - its more plausible than anta Anna, but the problem is that Garibaldi demanded command of all Union Forces and to make that Slavery was the cause of the war. The latter is obviously what happened, but the former is unlikely. You are not going to put a foreigner in command of your own army forces. Its a slap in the face to your own army commanders, especially for a conflict that was deemed a domestic issue.
 
Santa Anna might certainty have been offered a command as a legitimate foreign general.

Santa Anna's only claim to fame was his repeated attempts at gaining power. He knew how to take advantage of weaknesses and exploit any situation for personal gain.

Most of the time militarily he lost. BADLY.

He is not in any way a unifying or inspiring figure for the United States Army to use, let alone for politicians to use him. I do not see why the US would use him in any way.

Seriously, you would more chance if a 92 year old Napoleon Bonaparte was offered a commission in the Union army - if he was still alive in 1861. .
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Something to keep in mind is that quite a few Americans chose not to serve

I've heard the names of various Americans and foreign soldiers whom might have involved themselves in the Civil War. Some died early, others determined not to volunteer: ... etc..


Something to keep in mind is that quite a few Americans with respectable military careers chose not to serve in the regulars or United States Volunteers (active service for the duration) because of the nature of the conflict, which is something I have tried to explore in BROS. Some did serve in the militia or in the civilian war effort, but essentially, this pool of men is an element of the "one hand behind their back" point that (for example) Shelby Foote made in regards to the US war effort. West Pointers alone who fall into this sort of category number in the hundreds; men with regular army commissioned experience (but not West Point graduates) or active service in the volunteers as an officer (Mexican War, for example) also numbered in the the hundreds; the following is not, repeat not, an exhaustive list:
  • Alfred Mordecai, Sr. 1823, ordnance,
  • Dennis H. Mahan, 1823, engineer,
  • Robert P. Parrott, 1824, artillery,
  • W. Beverhout Thompson, 1824, infantry,
  • Alexander D. Bache, 1825, engineer;
  • Joseph H. La Motte, 1827, infantry,
  • Thomas J. Lee, 1830, engineer,
  • Henry Van Rensselaer, 1831, infantry,
  • Henry du Pont, 1833, artillery,
  • Henry L. Scott, 1833, infantry,
  • Henry S. Turner, 1834, cavalry (also Saumur);
  • Marlborough Churchill, 1836, artillery/engineer,
  • George C. Thomas, 1836, artillery,
  • John Love, 1841, cavalry,
  • Henry B. Sears, 1846, artillery;
  • Washington C. Tevis, 1849, cavalry,
  • Jerome N. Bonaparte, 1852, cavalry
In terms of former regulars (non-West Pointers) or volunteers who did not see active service, the following individuals are interesting:
  • Alexander Doniphan
  • Charles A. May
  • John Coffee Hays
  • Joseph Lane
As far as foreigners go, this individual is one of the most interesting, since he actually made it to the US in 1861 and was offered a flag officer's commission:
  • François-Ferdinand-Philippe-Louis-Marie d'Orléans
All of them have - or will - show up in BROS.

Best,
 
Last edited:

Driftless

Donor
There are a couple of other candidates that TFSmith121 uses in "Burnished Rows." that probably require unique conditions to acheive General officer status: Frederick Douglas & Ely Parker (brevet Brigadier late in the ACW). Both were very highly capable leaders, but their genetics left them considered not fully acceptable in command roles.
 
  • Dennis H. Mahan, 1823, engineer,

You would kinda figure that, probably besides Lee reputation wise, Mahan is really doing his best job as the West Point professor.

Surprised you did not have Charles Mason on your list. I mean, the No1 of the Class of 1829, ahead of Robert E Lee. Even if he was a Copperhead Democrat during the Civil War.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
True...

There are a couple of other candidates that TFSmith121 uses in "Burnished Rows." that probably require unique conditions to acheive General officer status: Frederick Douglas & Ely Parker (brevet Brigadier late in the ACW). Both were very highly capable leaders, but their genetics left them considered not fully acceptable in command roles.

True ...

Although in BROS, the gallant Captain Douglas died at Rocky Branch in October, 1862, murdered by the treacherous rebels; Parker is (as of February, 1863) lieutenant colonel and commanding officer of the 53rd NY, made up of francophones and "Indians" from north and south of the border, taking over after Col. Wendell Phillips is killed in Canada.

And unfortunately, Robert Smalls will not become the first AA commissioned officer in the USNVs, having died at Cape Henlopen in May, 1862.

One likely USV general officer is Diego Archuleta, who (historically) was an brigadier general of New Mexico (Territorial) Militia; given his role with the USMMtM under Canby, a BG (USV) at least a brevet, seems reasonable.

Some other pathmaking possibilities for (potentially) field grade commissions in the world of BROS, however, are:
  • Martin Delany
  • Pinckney Benton Stewart
  • Christian Abraham Fleetwood
  • Antonio Maria de la Guerra
  • Francisco Perea
  • José Francisco Chaves
Thanks for the shout out.

Best,


 

TFSmith121

Banned
Actually, he's on the list of potential "ralliers" for BROS

You would kinda figure that, probably besides Lee reputation wise, Mahan is really doing his best job as the West Point professor.

Surprised you did not have Charles Mason on your list. I mean, the No1 of the Class of 1829, ahead of Robert E Lee. Even if he was a Copperhead Democrat during the Civil War.

Actually, Mason is one of the "ralliers" for BROS; given his active duty amounted to four years at USMA and two years on faculty before a long and quite honorable legal career (which in Iowa included service as chief justice), I pegged him in as a judge advocate in Fremont's Department of the Northwest; he is a named character in Chapter 13 (January, 1863) in regards to the Dakota War.

Although a Peace Democrat, one of his most famous cases as CJ was In the matter of Ralph on Habeas Corpus, which found for a former slave who had gotten to Iowa and petitioned for freedom under the NW Ordinance; Mason ruled in his favor in 1839.

So like I said, the list above is far from exhaustive.

As far as Mahan goes, in BROS he is still at USMA, but double-hatted as commanding officer, Defenses of West Point, relieving Lt. Col. Albert Church (1828, artillery) who was (historically) on faculty in 1861; Church, however, is my pick for artillery battalion commander of Van Rensselaer's "Mountain" Division, which eventually becomes the 1st Division, VIII Corps, under Ord...

Best,
 

Japhy

Banned
I can't say I'm surprised that no one has brought them up but

Frederick Townsend Ward for the Union and Henry A. Burgevine for the Confederacy (Or as a Southern Unionist, he was always "Neutral" on the American Issue while in China) both commanded the massively over-hyped organ that was the "Ever Victorious Army" mutinying, pillaging and occasionally fighting in the Taiping Rebellion.

Burgevine's record is entirely awful and filled with treason and Ward's has been overly built up by racist nonsense but in the right circumstances --- disbandment of the army / Fall of Shanghai in 1860 / Any of their fights over pay causing them to simply leave --- either man could arrive back in the US in time to sign on, they might even be able to come back with a big enough reputation to get a Generalship or a Colonelcy right off the bat.

Ward might even do a good job in the face of enemies that actually were universally equipped with firearms.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Ward was also a former merchant mariner

I can't say I'm surprised that no one has brought them up but

Frederick Townsend Ward for the Union and Henry A. Burgevine for the Confederacy (Or as a Southern Unionist, he was always "Neutral" on the American Issue while in China) both commanded the massively over-hyped organ that was the "Ever Victorious Army" mutinying, pillaging and occasionally fighting in the Taiping Rebellion.

Burgevine's record is entirely awful and filled with treason and Ward's has been overly built up by racist nonsense but in the right circumstances --- disbandment of the army / Fall of Shanghai in 1860 / Any of their fights over pay causing them to simply leave --- either man could arrive back in the US in time to sign on, they might even be able to come back with a big enough reputation to get a Generalship or a Colonelcy right off the bat.

Ward might even do a good job in the face of enemies that actually were universally equipped with firearms.

Ward was also a former merchant mariner; He and Burgevine both show up in BROS as commissioned USNV officers aboard commerce raiders operating in the Pacific against the British - they, and Schubrick, get the sobriquets of the "three pirates."

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
S.P. Spear was a better choice

I was always sorry for the way Josiah Harlan bombed out of the Civil War.

S. P. Spear was a better choice, though.

Harlan is one of those impossible to believe true stories, but Spear had more than a quarter century of active service in the regulars, in Mexico and on the frontier, and was RSM of the 2nd Dragoons in 1861. He left active duty fur years later as a brevet brigadier general of volunteers, IIRC...

There's a case to be made the US war effort in 1861-65 would have benefitted significantly if the regular army had simply been commissioned from top to bottom in the USVs, with an RA private getting a second lieutenancy, a corporal a lieutenancy, a sergeant a captain's commission (company, troop, or battery commanders), the senior sergeants all going in as majors, and the lieutenants all being commissioned lieutenant colonels, the captains as colonels, majors as brigadier generals, etc.

Mustangs all, basically.;)

Best,
 
S. P. Spear was a better choice, though.

Harlan is one of those impossible to believe true stories, but Spear had more than a quarter century of active service in the regulars, in Mexico and on the frontier, and was RSM of the 2nd Dragoons in 1861. He left active duty fur years later as a brevet brigadier general of volunteers, IIRC...

There's a case to be made the US war effort in 1861-65 would have benefitted significantly if the regular army had simply been commissioned from top to bottom in the USVs, with an RA private getting a second lieutenancy, a corporal a lieutenancy, a sergeant a captain's commission (company, troop, or battery commanders), the senior sergeants all going in as majors, and the lieutenants all being commissioned lieutenant colonels, the captains as colonels, majors as brigadier generals, etc.

Mustangs all, basically.;)

Best,


I can't find any reference to him. What was his full name?

Thanks.
 
I can't find any reference to him. What was his full name?

Thanks.

Samuel P. Spear

sam+spear.JPG
 
There's a case to be made the US war effort in 1861-65 would have benefitted significantly if the regular army had simply been commissioned from top to bottom in the USVs, with an RA private getting a second lieutenancy, a corporal a lieutenancy, a sergeant a captain's commission (company, troop, or battery commanders), the senior sergeants all going in as majors, and the lieutenants all being commissioned lieutenant colonels, the captains as colonels, majors as brigadier generals, etc.

Mustangs all, basically.;)

Best,

Better get your time machine ready and tell that to General Scott. ;):p
 
Perhaps more European Revolutionaries, like OTL Franz Sigel. Could an earlier manifested Fenian movement allow the leadership of Irish nationalists?
 
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