Alexander Routed at Gaugamela

Battle_of_Gaugamela,_331_BC_-_Opening_movements.png


As it says, what if Alexander the Great isn't just defeated by Darius, at Gaugamela but utterly routed on the field, leading the capture of most if not all of his most senior generals and the destruction of his army.

Alexander (like Darius) escapes and returns to Macedonia and into hiding.

Does Darius push the initiative to seize all of Greece and Egypt? Would he be smart too?

How does this effect warfare tactics and the future for Roman conquest in the region?

Does Hellenism still occur?
 
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GdwnsnHo

Banned
Well - really, quite a lot.

If Alexander loses his army, there is every chance that he'd be forced back to Greece - and focus on a European Empire. The Greeks would probably have even more reasons to fear Persia, and therefore build a fortress on the Hellespont. This is assuming that the Hellenic League sticks together.

However, Persia .. is falling apart. That was one of the major reasons Alexander could charge through, the Empire was on the decline.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Ahh..so even a curb stomp by the Persians wouldnt reverse their fortunes Empire-wise?

The Persians? They'll reform as a new Empire soon enough, probably not a Neo-Achemenid Empire, but perhaps one built around Mesopotamia, or someone else. I'm not aware of what other major military powers were interested in Persia at the time.

Alexander the Great has only recently quietened Greece. They still have the extra manpower that he called upon during his campaigns. Will Alexander try to fight another Guagamela? Perhaps, and he may win it.

But really, the way I see it is that Alexander humbled WILL NOT go to Mesopotamia, not into Persia-Proper. He is certainly interested, but he wouldn't have the manpower, or the ego after being crushed at Gaugamela, and losing so many generals.

I can see a few major conquests that could still happen.

1) Anatolia, Levant and Egypt - If Alexander goes East, these are the easy conquests, especially if he wins a 2nd Gaugamela. It isn't Persia Proper, so it can still be sold as Liberation, and isn't going to be a powerbase for a Persian Satrap.

2) Anatolia (again), and the Euxine Sea - This is still the General who defeated the Steppes - the Euxine Sea would be a lovely addition to his Empire. Again, not Persia Proper.

3) Illyria/Dalmatia - This could be an interesting conquest that is much more similar to home. If he can rule from The Danube to the Coast, he's created an Empire that could easily hold out again the Galatians/any other tribes that are coming this way.

4) Dacia - Close to home, defensible, and an interesting addition. It provides security for the Danube, and opens it up for Greek settlement. The only issue is that it is occupied by the Getae, and are not easily beaten.

He's well placed to create a Macedonian Empire in OTL ERE. But this is optimistic. BUT! Alexander The Great may be known as a greater ruler than conqueror, as he isn't going to die of malaria exceptionally young, and may well be able to establish a strong Empire.

Would he want to crush Persia in his older age? Perhaps, and with a united Empire, and his talents? It'd be very possible.

However, Alexandria on the Bosphoros (OTL Constantinople) may be the most important city in his Empire, followed by Alexandria on the Nile.
 
Wouldn't he risk being killed during the retreat or when he returned home after such a disaster? Might the Greek cities revolt against him?
 
How does Alexander get away if most of his generals do not, given that he preferred to be at the head of any attack? The only plausible answer I can think of too this question would bear seriously negative consequences for Alexander once word gets out of the defeat, someone who builds such a big reputation for themselves as a great warrior but then runs away in the middle of a battle and leaves his comrades and even his childhood friends behind isn't going to remain a popular man even in his home country.

That quibble aside, I can certainly imagine he'd be facing a great possibility of revolts in Greece. I'm sure there were still some Macedonian/Greek troops of his stationed between Arbela and the Hellespont but probably not nearly enough to gather a significant army to prevent the resurgent Darius from pushing forth and retaking his lands, although Alexander still has the army Zopyrion would've lost in Scythia several years later so it's not entirely bleak, he'd just have to recall him. Antipater is also still around, but again, with such a great loss of prestige and whatnot he's going to face trouble in the Macedonian court, along with Greece. That said, Darius certainly can't attempt an invasion of Macedonia, the best he can do is probably use the riches of Persia, at least what he can spare in the face of trying to rebuild the half an empire Alexander destroyed, to fund Greek revolts.
 
Darius would have a lot of work stabilizing Persia: as previous people pointed out, the empire is in shamble, I can't see him leading a counter-attack.

But Persia still have a powerful navy than can be sent in Greece to rouse up the country against Macedonian rule. Attacking Alexander's rear base was the plan of Memmon of Rhode, Darius's advisor. It would be an easier thing to do with the new of a Macedonian defeat.

Another important thing: the Macedonian kingdom would be completely bankrupt: Alexander emptied the coffers for his campaign. He's going to face a lot of trouble at home, and with the great loss of manpower, Macedonia could disappear from the scene for a while.
 
If you want crush Alexander's conquest of Asia is better make him lose at Issos (his first battle against Darius) and not Gaugamela... Before Gaugamela he has already conquered much of the Persian Empire including Asia Minor, Syria and Egypt and also captured Darius' family after Issos...

The ost likely option after a defeat at Gaugamela is a peace treaty who consent Alexander to keep many of his conquest (including Asia Minor and Egypt) and marry him to Darius' eldest daughter but forced him to recognize the authority of Darius...
 
If Alexander loses his entire army at Gaugamela I don't think it really matters how much territory he'd taken up to that point, he's lost the war, he can't replace his troops like Darius could, even after Gaugamela Darius was going to gather yet another large army before being betrayed by Bessus. Alexander's base however is in Makedon, he can't really draw another 40,000 trained and experienced phalangites out of his Asian conquests and no matter how many people he levies he's still lost most of his generals and supporters.
 
But you can not really destroy his army and generals without capture or killing him when he was almost always leading his men in the fight... So you can have only two choices
a) Alexander is killed or captured (more likely the first one) during the battle
b) he lose many men and some of his generals but his defeat is neither total or destructive...
You can not destroy almost completely the forces of a king who lead his men at the head of the attack in battle and have him walking away alive and free from the battlefield...
 
But you can not really destroy his army and generals without capture or killing him when he was almost always leading his men in the fight... So you can have only two choices
a) Alexander is killed or captured (more likely the first one) during the battle
b) he lose many men and some of his generals but his defeat is neither total or destructive...
You can not destroy almost completely the forces of a king who lead his men at the head of the attack in battle and have him walking away alive and free from the battlefield...

That's exactly what happened to Darius...he escaped.
 
But you can not really destroy his army and generals without capture or killing him when he was almost always leading his men in the fight... So you can have only two choices
a) Alexander is killed or captured (more likely the first one) during the battle
b) he lose many men and some of his generals but his defeat is neither total or destructive...
You can not destroy almost completely the forces of a king who lead his men at the head of the attack in battle and have him walking away alive and free from the battlefield...

Actually that's what I was going to say:
- if Alexander the Great is conscious he'll never leave the field of battle. no way. no chance. period. He is too stupid/proud for that.

but there's the possibility that he is seriously wounded and he's unconscious and he is taken away by his loyal friends. So his body is evacuated by his hetairs and his army is being annihilated in the meantime.
And in a month or so Alexander gets recovered and has to deal with the problem of loosing an army.
 

tenthring

Banned
That's exactly what happened to Darius...he escaped.

Darius was a soft little puke who let others do his fighting for him. He escaped in the hopes of leveraging his inheritance one more time to throw a mass of men at Alexander and hope numbers give him the victory.

Alexander led an army of highly trained, tough, non-replaceable professional fighters. He can't just levy another one of those. Also, Alexander fought on the front lines, he was some pampered aristocrat.

This story isn't that complicated. The Persians were once tough badasses. They took over. Then they get soft over the years. Then some new power (the Greeks) comes and conquers them. Then they get soft and someone conquers them. It's basically history on a loop. If Alexander dies and doesn't conquer them some horse people would come along and do so.
 
Actually that's what I was going to say:
- if Alexander the Great is conscious he'll never leave the field of battle. no way. no chance. period. He is too stupid/proud for that.

but there's the possibility that he is seriously wounded and he's unconscious and he is taken away by his loyal friends. So his body is evacuated by his hetairs and his army is being annihilated in the meantime.
And in a month or so Alexander gets recovered and has to deal with the problem of loosing an army.

This sounds like the opening of that Alexander in Korea TL. Persia breaks Alexander (though differently from here), he ends up deciding that the shame of his defeat would be unbearable so he leaves for the east with his loyal companions, and on to legend... :D:D:D:D:D
 
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