AHC/WI: Sweden remains a major power

What PODs will have Sweden retain its status as a major European power?

Bonus if it becomes a significant colonial power.
It needs a larger population.I can't see that happening even if it succeeds in uniting Scandinavia,so it might have to conquer quite a bit of fertile lands to the south.
 
Keeping sway over the Baltic coast, especially Riga and maybe the Duchy of Prussia (the latter presumably as somesort of vassal), would seem a critical first step.

The only problem I see with that is keeping it without obliterating Poland (and, thus, creating a void for the Russians to expand into before coming back for the Baltic).

In addition, Sweden will have to somehow get more independence in its policy w.r.t. Denmark. Even when it was a major power it never got a chance to really 'deal with' Denmark (thanks to foreign intervention and occasional Danish strength), which meant every Sweden-anyone war started out with having to fight the Danes.
No idea how to do that, though, since practically noone wants Sweden to decisively beat Denmark.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Keeping sway over the Baltic coast, especially Riga and maybe the Duchy of Prussia (the latter presumably as somesort of vassal), would seem a critical first step.

What about a royal marriage between Christina and the Duke of Brandenburg?
 
What about a royal marriage between Christina and the Duke of Brandenburg?

Possible, but if you give Sweden too much of Germany, eventually 1 of 2 things will happen:

A) it will become a German state that rules over Sweden
B) the whole of Europe will decide it's getting too big

The two don't exclude eachother, obviously. But all of Brandenburg is a pretty big chunk of Germany (it's post-Cleves-inheritance, and all, right?). Add in the Duchy of Prussia, and you have a state that probably has more Germans than Swedes already. If it persists, it's going to become German eventually.
 
Gustavus Adolphus survives Lutzen, that should be enough to do it.

North German/Protestant victory in the now not-Thirty Years War, much of the devastation of the later years of that largely futile bloodbath is averted leaving Germany substantially better off;

obvious rematch on the horizon, protestant powers vs. catholic powers, Sweden/Denmark/north Germany vs. Austria/France/Spain, two very shaky coalitions with with far more than enough reason to fall out among themselves as happened in the later Thirty Years' War anyway;

this would be a very good one not to be looking forwards to, the sort of pause available for everyone to reorganise and rearm is just going to make it far worse.

In the interim, and for economic reasons (for financial muscle in the upcoming N30YW round 2), colonies; everyone looking overseas for an offset to the balance, everyone trying for Spanish plate convoys, Carribean sugar islands, Dutch spice islands, the ugly business of the start of the slave trade as a major concern- and you could let things snowball from there.
 

Faeelin

Banned
The two don't exclude eachother, obviously. But all of Brandenburg is a pretty big chunk of Germany (it's post-Cleves-inheritance, and all, right?). Add in the Duchy of Prussia, and you have a state that probably has more Germans than Swedes already. If it persists, it's going to become German eventually.

Probably, but if you don't get more Germans than Swedes, then it's not really a viable great power.
 
obvious rematch on the horizon, protestant powers vs. catholic powers, Sweden/Denmark/north Germany vs. Austria/France/Spain, two very shaky coalitions with with far more than enough reason to fall out among themselves as happened in the later Thirty Years' War anyway;

Not certain France would want to ally with the Hapsburgs, unless its own territory were under threat.
 
Not want to, really, not first choice as an option, but being on the same, losing, side could give rise to an alliance of expediency, which would be conducted with much friction and misunderstanding, and last only as long as it was still expedient. A short term alignment may be feasible, in the long term yes, they'd be back at each other's throats before long.
 
There would have to be a union of Sweden and Denmark-Norway at some point.

This creates an obvious rivalry with Britain and Russia, but that was partially inevitable anyway.

Were either country, Sweden or Denmark-Norway dependent on Salic Law? If not, a dynastic marriage was certainly possible.

Another possibility for expansion would be the 7 Years War. If Prussia had fallen, at least part of Pomerania would have fallen to Sweden.

Theoretically, you'd have a Sweden-Denmark-Pomerania-Norway-Finland which would outgun Russia in the Baltic and give Britain a fight.

I'm not sure how such a cumbersome confederacy would work or if it is viable at all.

If you want to go back further, Sweden did possess parts of the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, etc). But those seem destined to fall to Russia eventually, assuming the continued decline of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth into the "sick man of Europe" and giving Russia no real force to challenge their westward expansion.

Maybe Sweden might manage getting the Duchy of Courland back, perhaps as a dowry from Russia for marrying a Russian Princess??

I don't see Sweden having a foreign empire of any signicance. Challenging Britain for superiority in the Baltic is one thing. Managing to run the gauntlet past Britain, France and the Netherlands just to REACH the Atlantic is another. They'd lose their overseas possessions in their first war with just about anyone.

This greater Sweden would be a regional power at best.
 
No rule, but it might go against the spirit or intent of the original post.

Fair. Maybe you could have Sweden take parts of Germany, Poland, and Russia, and Swedish ends up being the lingua franca of the multiethnic state? That might be an improvement, providing it can hold itself together.
 
I don't see the language thing as a major obstacle. A number of viable languages of the era faded in the 18th & 19th Centuries as education & other public policies nudged folks towards another. Today 'Brandenbergic' might be a local secondary antique German language underlying Swedish in parts of South Sweden. The prevalence of Frisian along the north Sea coast did not prevent the political subjugation to Dutch, German, or Danish speakers. A better example would be the Austrian empire dominating a half dozen other distinct ethinic groups.

If the Swedish crown can offer some distinct advantage to the Brandenbergers & adjacent groups it can ensure its military/economic dominance for some time.

Colonial expansion might be a arc of locations spanning from Norway across to the eastern seaboard of North America & into Hudsons Bay & the Arctic.
 
But all the examples you gave, the language that died out was a small minority. In Austria, the plurality of language in the Empire was always German, most of the slavic languages were all very small localized speakers.

In this case, it would be the majority of speakers in the empire speaking German. It would be Swedish that either dies out, or becomes heavily Germanized.

It would be interesting if the German parts of the Swedish empire define themselves as "Nordic" or maybe even "Swedish" (albeit a heavily Germanized Swedish) in order to reinforce their Protestant identity against the southern Catholic Germans. Adolphus was planning on conquering most of the Northern Protestant states, so a pan-Germanic and Protestant identity might be feasible for such a state; although it would probably also be anti-Polish as a result.
 
Maybe make swedes less isolated in the great northern war,
like prussia helping or whatnot,
of course that would make changes to the War of the spanish succession,
well that _might_ make the two conflicts combine,
with franco-swedish alliance and a great Quintuple alliance
 
It would be interesting if the German parts of the Swedish empire define themselves as "Nordic" or maybe even "Swedish" (albeit a heavily Germanized Swedish) in order to reinforce their Protestant identity against the southern Catholic Germans. Adolphus was planning on conquering most of the Northern Protestant states, so a pan-Germanic and Protestant identity might be feasible for such a state; although it would probably also be anti-Polish as a result.
Regarding this, Denmark had a sizable German majority in northern Germany (Holstein) but I seem to recall that they were far from accepted by the Danish elites: being called "German" was almost an insult.

What could make Swedish elites react differently in case of such a large German minority in its Empire?
 
Regarding this, Denmark had a sizable German majority in northern Germany (Holstein) but I seem to recall that they were far from accepted by the Danish elites: being called "German" was almost an insult.

What could make Swedish elites react differently in case of such a large German minority in its Empire?
Have the King/Queen speak German.:cool:
 
Top