Australian Civilization

Alcsentre Calanice · Dec 19, 2014

Is it possible that, influenced by some Chinese, Indonesian and Indian people, the Australian Aborigines develop a civilization (perceived by the western people as "civilization"), so that they reach an Aztec level by around 1400 AD?

naraht · Dec 19, 2014

Not really

The issue is lack of a crop that can be farmed in a way that it allows for agriculture. For an ATL where such a crop does exist (The red yam) see
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=286304 (Land of Red and Gold Act II, which has links to the original)

leopard9 · Dec 19, 2014

If some crops are introduced to Australia than yeah. Drought resistant crops such as sorghum or millet from India could work. Or rice from China or Indonesia that makes its way to the Murray-Darling river basin.

Richard V · Dec 19, 2014

Wheat and cattle are the top agricultural products today and they were widely available in Asia for thousands of years.

Imperator Maximilianius · Dec 19, 2014

naraht said:
The issue is lack of a crop that can be farmed in a way that it allows for agriculture. For an ATL where such a crop does exist (The red yam) see
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=286304 (Land of Red and Gold Act II, which has links to the original)

Yeah, for agriculture to develop, you need a "founder crop".

pa_dutch · Dec 20, 2014

It seems more likely that an early introduction of Asian agriculture to Australia would lead to a civilization built by Asian incomers and their descendants rather than an aboriginal adoption of agriculture - though there'd likely be a notable aboriginal genetic element to the civilization due to contact and intermarriage. The unassimilated aboriginal cultures would become increasingly marginalized, though some of them might survive the same way "Negrito" groups still exist in Southeast Asia.

Oracle of Sobek 𓆋 · Dec 20, 2014

pa_dutch said:
It seems more likely that an early introduction of Asian agriculture to Australia would lead to a civilization built by Asian incomers and their descendants rather than an aboriginal adoption of agriculture - though there'd likely be a notable aboriginal genetic element to the civilization due to contact and intermarriage. The unassimilated aboriginal cultures would become increasingly marginalized, though some of them might survive the same way "Negrito" groups still exist in Southeast Asia.

Though this could easily lead to Aboriginal state building exercises around areas impacted by the Asian settler civilizations, and there are butterflies to be unleashed there.

Simreeve · Dec 20, 2014

Richard V said:
Wheat and cattle are the top agricultural products today and they were widely available in Asia for thousands of years.

Introduce cattle and then you've got the dung problem... with native states probably finding it harder than the British did to identify & import a relevant species of dung beetles as a solution.

leopard9 · Dec 20, 2014

Simreeve said:
Introduce cattle and then you've got the dung problem... with native states probably finding it harder than the British did to identify & import a relevant species of dung beetles as a solution.

Couldn't the dung be used as fertilizer for the crops? Australian soil is pretty impoverished so wouldn't dung help? And most of Australia is a hot arid climate and introducing water hungry crops seems like a recipe for disaster down the line. Sorghum and millet are adapted for arid environments so I think they'd be a better fit than wheat.

Richard V · Dec 21, 2014

Concievably some early Tamil explorers could get lost and marooned, either unable or unwilling to leave. They would be too few to dominate the indigenous population. A POD a thousand years before 1400 should be possible. By the time Europeans arrive, they should already be plugged into the rest of the Asian trade network.