Early Japanese colonization of Taiwan?

Not sure if it's been done before or not, but here goes:

(This is going off Wiki, so don't judge me... :p)
The Qing didn't really express any interest in Taiwan or the Penghu Islands "...until the 16th century...". They were obviously inhabited, but the population and the island was considered to be "...hostile tribes and... lack[ing]... in trade resources valued in that era...".
The Japanese however, had wakou / pirates raiding the Chinese coastline, dating all the way back to the 13th century. If they were able to easily raid from Tsushima and Iki Island, let's say the began setting up permanent settlements and bases of operation farther south... say, getting into occasional conflicts with native Taiwanese tribes.
Moving forward, Taiwan is thoroughly Japanese by the time the Dutch show up in 1622, with the first encounters being between the VOC and Japanese authorities, rather than Ming.

So:
Plausibility?
Possible effects on the Yuan Dynasty and Zheng He's little adventures?
Repercussions moving forward?

Thoughts?
 
Surely the Okinawans would make more sense?

But I guess the thing to consider is that the natives weren't push overs. We weren't talking Australian aboriginals here, people ignorant of the outside world and unable to comprehend the sheer weight of numbers that
nations could send against them.
The Taiwanese aboriginals had enough contact with the outside world that they had a pretty good idea of the threats that lay across the sea.
Considering the technology level of the Japanese wasn't really that far in advance of them either and it would be a pretty major expedition for the Japanese to attempt to conquer Taiwan. Not really worth the effort.

Also, even though the Chinese didn't show much effort in actually settling the island, they would regard Japanese expansion there as expansion into clear Chinese territory- most of the world was Chinese territory but this island right off the coast of China proper, beyond the lands of the Ryukan kingdom...a major threat for China.
 
I don't think the OP means an invasion... just settlement.

A few traders who set up a small community that grows into a village then a town and then a city isn't a huge or immediate military threat.

It's possible that a bunch of Ryukyuans and Wakou decide to emigrate to taiwan, and we get intermarriage and assimilation with the locals resulting in an aborigial/japanese mix that ends up dominating the island, but slowly enough that it never bothers the Chinese, so long as they keep paying tribute or whatever.
 
Considering I am thinking about this for my own timeline, I would maybe small trading settlements would work out, but your ideal time period here.
 
It has always been puzzling to me why there is no real evidence of early colonization in either direction.

For two places that are so close to each other (Taiwan is occasionally visible from Yonaguni, the westernmost island in the Ryukyu archipelago), there was surprisingly little contact between them until very late in history. It's not as if they lacked the technology to reach each other given that the Austronesian societies were some of the best sailors and navigators ever, and Japanese boats routinely traveled to mainland Asia. Aside from possibly a few elements in Japanese architecture and language (unless you subscribe to the hypothesis that Japanese has an Austronesian base), there is basically no definitive Austronesian presence in any part of Japan. There is no genetic contribution from the Taiwanese aborigines in the people living on the Ryukyus despite them being considered the original inhabitants of the islands. It's possible that contact happened so long ago or so infrequently that any evidence has since been lost, but that seems improbable.

There are plenty of reasons for the Japanese to settle in Taiwan though. Taiwan was very sparsely populated, and while it lacked iron, there were many other resources. There were several gold deposits in the northern part of the island that may be reason enough for settlement if the Japanese discover them.
 
Also, even though the Chinese didn't show much effort in actually settling the island, they would regard Japanese expansion there as expansion into clear Chinese territory- most of the world was Chinese territory but this island right off the coast of China proper, beyond the lands of the Ryukan kingdom...a major threat for China.
China didn't even attempt to exert control over Taiwan until 1683, when the they forced the surrender to the Qing Dynasty. Before that, it was mostly Dutch presence, with a "pro-Ming" government only being set up in 1661.
(Again, according to Wiki...), Taiwan "... did not appear on any map of the imperial domain until 1683."
I'm proposing the Japanese begin settling there centuries before this.

I don't think the OP means an invasion... just settlement.

A few traders who set up a small community that grows into a village then a town and then a city isn't a huge or immediate military threat.

It's possible that a bunch of Ryukyuans and Wakou decide to emigrate to taiwan, and we get intermarriage and assimilation with the locals resulting in an aborigial/japanese mix that ends up dominating the island, but slowly enough that it never bothers the Chinese, so long as they keep paying tribute or whatever.
Exactly.
Hence the reference to the Wakou/Ryukyuans, and perhaps the Okinawans as well. Initial pirate settlements, increased settlement and creeping "Japan-ification" through the centuries; so that by the time the Chinese do show up in 1661 (butterflies aside), the island has been gradually growing towards Japan for 300 years. The Dutch still set things up in 1623, but like in Japan itself: things go well, and a working relationship is arranged. Then, when Koxinga arrives in '61, he is repulsed by the Dutch/Japanese-Taiwanese (as a strongly pro-Japanese Taiwan is bound to have significantly better naval capabilities than OTL).
 

Faeelin

Banned
Isn't a better POD during the period of Hideyoshi? Rather than invading Korea, he turns south, towards Taiwan...
 
How about a bunch of Ryukyuans, particularly those who came from Okinawa, to settle in the area corresponds to the OTL Taoyuan, while intermarrying with indigenous Taiwanese groups, especially in the north and west.

Also included the possibility that the Ryukyuan royal family will move to Taoyuan and set it as their capital.
 
Wouldn't Hokkaido be a greater priority for the Japanese? If a Chinese dynasty had decided to settle there then the Japanese could have been in hot water.

Colonialism didn't seem to be a high priority for the Japanese though (as Hokkaido, Ryukyu etc show) so you'd need to give them a reason to. Or make them more expansionist? Perhaps a more successful invasion of the home islands? Where they have to fight an invader and decide they need to expand to protect themselves? Less internal division would definitely help too.
 

elkarlo

Banned
It has always been puzzling to me why there is no real evidence of early colonization in either direction.

For two places that are so close to each other (Taiwan is occasionally visible from Yonaguni, the westernmost island in the Ryukyu archipelago), there was surprisingly little contact between them until very late in history. It's not as if they lacked the technology to reach each other given that the Austronesian societies were some of the best sailors and navigators ever, and Japanese boats routinely traveled to mainland Asia. Aside from possibly a few elements in Japanese architecture and language (unless you subscribe to the hypothesis that Japanese has an Austronesian base), there is basically no definitive Austronesian presence in any part of Japan. There is no genetic contribution from the Taiwanese aborigines in the people living on the Ryukyus despite them being considered the original inhabitants of the islands. It's possible that contact happened so long ago or so infrequently that any evidence has since been lost, but that seems improbable.

There are plenty of reasons for the Japanese to settle in Taiwan though. Taiwan was very sparsely populated, and while it lacked iron, there were many other resources. There were several gold deposits in the northern part of the island that may be reason enough for settlement if the Japanese discover them.


It puzzles me as well. Taiwan makes for a larger Okinawa for Japan. In fact, a proper Daimiyo can set up shop there. Which would benefit Japan greatly via trade, and food exports.
Not many natives, and a lot of vetrans psot warring states, would have made for a better use of the newly united Japan under Hideyoshi.
 
Two things. First Hideyoshi was either following Nobunaga's dream of invading China, or trying to get himself recognized as Shogun, since he was a peasant and could be a Kampaku. Second Japanese colonies would have only been for trade and very limited, and possibly had to used by Daimyo, to actually do anything.

An example would be Hokkaido. Hokkaido was run by the Kakizaki/Matsuemae clan who where given a special status and practically managed to gain control over various parts of Hokkaido. Lets say Tokugawa Ieyasu is felling rather vindictive after Sekigahara in stead of creating a few outsider Daimyo, he sends some of them off to Taiwan.
 
Isn't a better POD during the period of Hideyoshi? Rather than invading Korea, he turns south, towards Taiwan...

It puzzles me as well. Taiwan makes for a larger Okinawa for Japan. In fact, a proper Daimiyo can set up shop there. Which would benefit Japan greatly via trade, and food exports.
Not many natives, and a lot of vetrans psot warring states, would have made for a better use of the newly united Japan under Hideyoshi.

Two things. First Hideyoshi was either following Nobunaga's dream of invading China, or trying to get himself recognized as Shogun, since he was a peasant and could be a Kampaku. Second Japanese colonies would have only been for trade and very limited, and possibly had to used by Daimyo, to actually do anything.

An example would be Hokkaido. Hokkaido was run by the Kakizaki/Matsuemae clan who where given a special status and practically managed to gain control over various parts of Hokkaido. Lets say Tokugawa Ieyasu is felling rather vindictive after Sekigahara in stead of creating a few outsider Daimyo, he sends some of them off to Taiwan.
I'd thought about Hideyoshi as well, but I was thinking much earlier than that, as in much more successful Mongol invasions in the 1200's. Japan still fights them off, but not after getting a seriously bloody nose. Increased interest in naval defense sees increased Wakou activity in the 13th/14th century. From there, you have your settlements on Taiwan beginning by the late 1300's/early 1400's.
 
Some scholars have drawn links between the Jomon culture and pre-Austronesians (ie the people who settled Taiwan) and some have even suggested a link between the languages of Ryuku and Java. The theory is that Ryuku language (Okinawan) and perhaps even Japanese are an early creole of an Altaic language on an Austronesian substratum.

Anyway the Taiwan - Ryuku is not only plausible it probably did happen. Of course we are here talking about later Japanese colonisation of Taiwan which in that case probably wouldn't have much impact other than having Japan in Taiwan rather than the RoC

Taiwan wasn't of interest to China until the 17th Century, by which time Europeans had already colonised it. Taiwan would probably have been treated the same way by Japan.

(Whats more interesting is earlier contact between Japan and say the Melayu Kingdom)
 
I thought the Japanese did try, but their various attempts were frustrated by disease and other factors. Plus, there's the fact that they can scarcely reach Taiwan without going through Okinawa first; I recall reading that Hideyoshi had plans to go south and invade the Philippines instead of Korea using the leftover troops from the Sengoku wars, so if he does that, perhaps he can create permanent settlements on Taiwan.
 
Some scholars have drawn links between the Jomon culture and pre-Austronesians (ie the people who settled Taiwan) and some have even suggested a link between the languages of Ryuku and Java. The theory is that Ryuku language (Okinawan) and perhaps even Japanese are an early creole of an Altaic language on an Austronesian substratum.

Anyway the Taiwan - Ryuku is not only plausible it probably did happen. Of course we are here talking about later Japanese colonisation of Taiwan which in that case probably wouldn't have much impact other than having Japan in Taiwan rather than the RoC

Taiwan wasn't of interest to China until the 17th Century, by which time Europeans had already colonised it. Taiwan would probably have been treated the same way by Japan.

(Whats more interesting is earlier contact between Japan and say the Melayu Kingdom)
This is almost exactly what I was driving at in the long-er term. Well, contact with the Srivijaya, rather than the Melayu, but the point being the same: long-term, established, trans-oceanic contact throughout the western Pacific by major powers at the time the colonial powers showed up. Granted, I know such states were, in fact, in place at the time the Dutch showed up; but I was thinking much stronger states in place than the petty sultanates which populated Indonesia, and a relatively self-land-locked Japan and China.
If, instead, there was a stronger, regularly ocean-going Japan which was well connected with a strong, centralized Indonesian/Malaysian based state (perhaps even fighting over the Philippines?) in place...
What would be the long term implications?
 
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