Vikings of the Pacific, or how a maimed man and a few goats changed history.

Pity us, oh Mother. Guard us, oh Mother. No, save us from the fury of the Haidian Raiders.

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-Unknown author. Translation of a hastily written message found on the ruins of a Salish longhouse.


This will be a TL about the rise of a Haidian nation ("kingdom") and the ramifications of such an event. The actual POD will take place several thousand years ago (more or less, I'm thinking roughly 4000 years ago, give or take), and for a long while the effects will be mostly concentrated in the Pacific North West. But as with all changes, the effects will slowly diffuse their way outwards.

Stay tuned and please, feel free to throw out any suggestions/ideas.
While I have a rough idea in my mind, it's far from concrete.

It has long been thought by western scholars that the rise of the West Coast ‘kingdoms’ and ‘nations’ could be traced back to two key events. The first and most important event being the domestication of the Coastal Mountain Goats (Oreamanos americanis) and the implicationsthat this brought upon the Haidian society. The second event, being the selective cultivation and breeding of Fritillaria camschatcensis, or more commonly known as, Northern Rice Root. Scholars have argued for years – decades – about which event was the trigger but none argue that they both had profound effects on the local societies in the region. Coupled with the fact that oral history and archeological data state that these events happened within a decade or two of one another, and it was the spark that started a firestorm that would sweep across thousands of kilometers of coastline and rippled throughout history to come.

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Exert from Heinric Fletcher's 'History of the West Coast Nations and People'.

Looking forward to where you take this, I think this idea has promise, if they can get more use of the resources in the area, they can go far. With a 4,000 year ago p.o.d. if you can include a start of a use of metals that would make a big difference, though well copper is close enough, do not think any good tin close enough. Do not know going straight to iron is likely.

I am so excited about this! I just heard about the Haida the other day, and thought it would make a great timeline. I'm way too occupied by my own TL to do one, so I'm glad someone is doing this!

(BTW, was this inspired by the new EU4 expansion?)

Looking forward to where you take this, I think this idea has promise, if they can get more use of the resources in the area, they can go far. With a 4,000 year ago p.o.d. if you can include a start of a use of metals that would make a big difference, though well copper is close enough, do not think any good tin close enough. Do not know going straight to iron is likely.

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While my POD is set, the date really isn't. At first I was going to start around 1000 AD, but realized that is much too late for what I have in mind. I want an earlier enough start to have "big changes" but changes that aren't "too big" it'll affect the old world. If that makes sense.

For the first couple updates the exact year isn't "overly" important, per say.

The next update or two will cover the actually POD in 'story form'.

(BTW, was this inspired by the new EU4 expansion?)

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Never played that game, so no. This is a TL i started (either here or on another site several years back but abandoned fairly early on). I've been wanting to get back into it and this is the start.

Nice, looking forward to more!

In your first post, I think you mean fury, not furry. Sorry, I can't help but notice.

consider myself subscribed

This is really good...

Damn you, I wanted to do something with the Haida!

Oh, well. Consider me subscribed.

Sounds interesting- subscribed. BTW, where do the "maimed man and a few goats" come into things and change the course of history for the Haida? Is the POD a shipwrecked person (ie, 'the maimed man') being blown across from East Asia, bringing the knowledge of rice cultivation and goat domestication across with him?

Sounds interesting- subscribed. BTW, where do the "maimed man and a few goats" come into things and change the course of history for the Haida? Is the POD a shipwrecked person (ie, 'the maimed man') being blown across from East Asia, bringing the knowledge of rice cultivation and goat domestication across with him?

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Nope. The POD (two, actually) are both locally induced. And it's northern rice root (a bulb plant that produces a white, granular, rice-like starchy edible) and not rice itself. The goats will stem from the local mainland mountain goat population. The maimed man, well, that'll come in the following updates...

Update soon.

Oh this looks tasty. Subbed!

He is the old man. The old man who brought wealth and power to our people. He gave his arm to the bear for foolishness, and his eye to the raven for wisdom. Crippled and scarred, it is said he still wanders the islands of our nation, searching for those most worthy. Sometimes he gifts wisdom, sometimes he gifts death. It matters not if you are young or old, a slave or a chieftain.

He is known as The Wanderer. The giver and taker of life. The old man.

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- snippet of the Haidain Legend of the Wanderer.

Some say The Wanderer is/was a God. Others say he was the raven in human form. Yet others say he was a man of great visions. In part, all are probably right in their own unique way.

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The man the Haida have taken to calling the Wanderer is based upon a real person. As far as we can tell, his full name has been lost to time for written records did not yet exist when he lived. Yet, oral history tells us of a very unlucky man who was mauled by a bear, pecked at by a raven, and left to die on the rugged slopes of a mountain far from his island home. Yet he lived and was saved by none other than the Forest Maiden* herself, or so the legends claim.

In truth, any researcher would have difficulties telling the myth from the fact when trying to delve into the history of the Wanderer for little is clear about his life. What is clear is that he is credited with not only introducing Mountain Goats to the Kingdom of Haida Gwaii, but taming them as well. In effect, he singlehandedly introduced and started animal husbandry on the Pacific Northwest Coast. Of that there is no doubt.

The effects of his actions echo through time to this very day…

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From the book "A History of the Rise of the Kingdom of Haida Gwaii"

* the Maidan is from an OTL native legend of a forest dwelling woman. Those that manage to spy her are blessed with luck.


Another tidbit. I will try for a full length update this weekend.
I hope this keeps you interested. Cheers.

So basically the story of goatherder gets hyperbolized into legend...

So basically the story of goatherder gets hyperbolized into legend...

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Yes.
The actual story of "what happened" will come in one of the following updates, if not the next update itself.

Firstly, I wanted to let you know I am definitely interested in this TL. I live on the BC coast, so may be able to help you out with any "local" info in you PM me.

One thing I'm curious about. Are you planning to have the Haida domesticate wild rice root themselves, or have another nation domesticate it and have the Haida adopt it from them. I feel like the Haida are unlikely to invent agriculture themselves as they live on a rocky island with poor farmland and plentiful fish and whales. Goats sort of make sense because they would survive and thrive in Haida Gwaii, but I can't see farming being worth the time and effort in Haida Gwaii until a founder crop has had a few centuries of domestication.

I think the more likely scenario is to have the initial domestication event happen inland in a place where the land is a little more arable. The lower Fraser River valley and the Okanagan valley are two such locations, although there are others in the interior of BC as well. The Haida could then pick up the crop from them.

If you're trying to create a Viking analogue, I think this is the more likely scenario. Nothing was actually domesticated in Scandinavia (ok reindeer were in Lapland I believe) - the Vikings acquired all their crops from farther South. In fact it was the existence of prosperous urban cultures to the South of the Vikings which made it profitable for them to practice their raiding.

This seems like an interesting idea.

Very interested to see where you take this.

Are either Oreamanos americanis or Fritillaria camschatcensis ameanable to domestication? All I've been able to find online is that Fritillaria camschatcensis patches were cared for so as to increase production and that one can grow it in a garden. Not been able to find any information on yields and how easy it is to select traits in the plant. And for the mountain goat, is its temper suitable for domestication? I haven't been able to find anything beyond them being kept in zoos or living in the wild.

Just curious if you are giving the Haida some mutants that didn't exist in otl.

fasquardon

Interesting start.