Poll: Christian theocratic breakaway state in North America

Name for a Christian theocracy in Arkansas and Oklahoma (full name)

  • Christian Republic/State of New Zion

    Votes: 8 25.8%
  • Republic/State of New Zion

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • Christian Republic/State of New Bable

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Republic/State of New Bable

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Christian Republic/State of New Judea

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Republic/State of New Judea

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Christian Republic/State of Arkansas

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Christian Republic/State of Arkansaw

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Christian Republic/State of New Gallilee

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Republic/State of New Gallilee

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Christian Republic/State of New Jericho

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Republic/State of New Jericho

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Christian Republic/State of Movatah (see description)

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • Other (please post)

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31
The USA dissolves (I know, cliché) - what should the name for the Christian theocracy in Arkansas and Oklahoma be?

Note: Movatah is from the Hebrew Ha'Aretz Muvtahat meaning "The Promised Land"
 
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TFSmith121

Banned
When and why and how?

The USA dissolves (I know, cliché) - what should the name for the Christian theocracy in Arkansas and Oklahoma be?

Note: Movatah is from the Hebrew Ha'Aretz Muvtahat meaning "The Promised Land"

Arkansas and Oklahoma are no more and no less likely to be dominated by a religious party than any other state in the Nineteenth Century; the obvious location would be Utah, which, of course, did not become a state until 1896, and only after the obvious trappings of LDS that would cause dissension with the US (polygamy, for example) were set aside by the church.

Best,
 
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The USA dissolves (I know, cliché) - what should the name for the Christian theocracy in Arkansas and Oklahoma be?

Note: Movatah is from the Hebrew Ha'Aretz Muvtahat meaning "The Promised Land"
First, most of Oklahoma was a huge reservation for most of the 19th century.
Second, Arkansas was not particularly fundamentalist compared to other states.

Utah makes much more sense in every way.
 
Arkansas and Oklahoma are no more and no less likely to be dominated by a religious party than any other state in the Nineteenth Century; the obvious location would be Utah, which, of course, did not become a state until 1896, and only after the obvious trappings of LDS that would cause dissension with the US (polygamy, for example) were set aside by the church.

Best,

A theocracy in Oklahoma and Arkansas? That... Seems improbable to me.

First, most of Oklahoma was a huge reservation for most of the 19th century.
Second, Arkansas was not particularly fundamentalist compared to other states.

Utah makes much more sense in every way.

America at the time of my POD:

United_States_1812-04-1812-05.png


At this time, there is no distinct Arkansas territory, and certainly no Oklahoma territory.

The population of Arkansas at the time of its first census (based on towns and settlements in the year 1810 within what would later be the Arkansas territory but at that time part of the Missouri territory): 1,062

Oklahoma didn't have a census till 1890 so that won't help us but it's safe to assume it had a very low population as well, seeing as in 1890 it was 258,657 whilst Arkansas was 1,128,211.

With a POD of 1812, this leaves a lot of room for alternative settlement in the region and with the right story line that leads to a USA that falls apart, it is certainly far from ASB.

In fact if anything, suggesting it has to be in Utah is kind of an AH cliché.
 
Okay, if your PoD is before Arkansas (Arkansan?) statehood, there's definitely enough wiggle room to drive a caravan of unicorns through. (Or wild oxen, if you aren't a King James Version literalist.) But in that case, there's also plenty of room for them to develop associations with pretty much whichever name you want to give them. The only way we can really choose, before seeing your timeline, is by what name sounds most awesome to us - so, really, take your pick.
 
Why would a Christian theocracy be a "republic". The Bible is pretty much bought into the "Kingdom" mentality.
 
Could you not get a holy order like the Knights of St John to receive a papal order to convert the native americans?

Not sure myself, but could be interesting. I mean they owned a few caribbean islands, so perhaps the success of these outposts leads to some expansion.
 
Okay, if your PoD is before Arkansas (Arkansan?) statehood, there's definitely enough wiggle room to drive a caravan of unicorns through. (Or wild oxen, if you aren't a King James Version literalist.) But in that case, there's also plenty of room for them to develop associations with pretty much whichever name you want to give them. The only way we can really choose, before seeing your timeline, is by what name sounds most awesome to us - so, really, take your pick.

Actually the poll was for just that - I wanted to see which one people liked the best. As it happens, people agreed with me in New Zion, which I think is the strongest sounding name.

Why would a Christian theocracy be a "republic". The Bible is pretty much bought into the "Kingdom" mentality.


First Samuel 8:4-18 is not a ringing endorsement for a human king, so it could be used to justify a theocratic republic.

Both that and also I think anyone with an ideology will find a way to interpret their faith to suit them. In my story, it's effectively going to be a totalitarian state with a cult of personality around its founding father(s) and the current leader.

Could you not get a holy order like the Knights of St John to receive a papal order to convert the native americans?

Not sure myself, but could be interesting. I mean they owned a few caribbean islands, so perhaps the success of these outposts leads to some expansion.

As cool as that would be, the state in my story is actually extremely Protestant (as well as extremely racist) and would detest the Papacy, so I'm afraid not :p

Jesusland of course.

Sounds like a themepark! :D
 
As cool as that would be, the state in my story is actually extremely Protestant (as well as extremely racist) and would detest the Papacy, so I'm afraid not :p

Well a protestant holy order isn't impossible ( there are protestant versions of the Knights of St. John - though non-military.) so have the Archbishop of Canterbury do it? Then they may strike out on their own (given the anglican church's views on slavery and race changing perhaps).

Up to you of course and good luck with your story :)
 
Well a protestant holy order isn't impossible ( there are protestant versions of the Knights of St. John - though non-military.) so have the Archbishop of Canterbury do it? Then they may strike out on their own (given the anglican church's views on slavery and race changing perhaps).

Up to you of course and good luck with your story :)

Also a very interesting thought, I do like the idea of a millitant Protestant Order, that's great AH :D

But I do already have a backstory planned for it, I just really wanted the community's opinion on a name :)

Thanks very much for your help and wishing good luck, I look forward to sharing it eventually!
 
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