Pedro V of Portugal lives longer

abc123

Banned
It seems that King Pedro V of Portugal was actually pretty good and popular king, maybe even the best king of Portugal in 19-th Century.

http://madmonarchist.blogspot.com/2012/08/monarch-profile-king-pedro-v-of-portugal.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_V_of_Portugal

But he died in 1861, from typhoid fever or cholera, presumably after drinking water from contaminated lake during hunt.

So, what if he simply decided not to go hunting these days? And if he lived longer? He was only 24 at the time, so what if he lived for another 46 years, until he reached 70. Not too much I guess, given the average age of his family members and rapidly developing medicine at the time...

What would be the consequences for Portugal?
 
  • Better social policies and more education to the masses are on my wish-list and it seems like something Pedro would lobby for (or rather: carry on lobbying for). So much good can come from this in the long run...
  • The track record of the Portuguese treatment of African laborers will increase.
  • I can hypothesize a Portuguese race for Africa that is more backed by infrastructural investments. Can't say how Pedro would view the race for Africa so it's but an educated guess EDIT: based on the fact that he definitely wanted to promote that IOTL.
 
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abc123

Banned
  • Better social policies and more education to the masses are on my wish-list and it seems like something Pedro would lobby for (or rather: carry on lobbying for). So much good can come from this in the long run...
  • The track record of the Portuguese treatment of African laborers will increase.
  • I can hypothesize a Portuguese race for Africa that is more backed by infrastructural investments. Can't say how Pedro would view the race for Africa so it's but an educated guess EDIT: based on the fact that he definitely wanted to promote that IOTL.

So, more schools and universities, earlier than OTL?

More railways and other infrastructure maybe?
 

abc123

Banned
Yes, I'd say that would be very likely.


Whatever it'd take to be more than some colonial officers showing up every now and then with a contract reminding that that land was Portuguese. Neglect is the enemy of profit.

I was thinking more about infrastructure in Portugal...

But yes, it makes sence that they would be more active in colonies too...
;)
 

abc123

Banned
Err, considering that his Hohenzollern wife died in1859, if he decided to remarry in 1860s, who could he marry?
 
I was thinking more about infrastructure in Portugal...

But yes, it makes sence that they would be more active in colonies too...
;)
Sure, that too. But regarding railways, the extent of the Portuguese network by the end of the century was not half bad IMHO.

Err, considering that his Hohenzollern wife died in1859, if he decided to remarry in 1860s, who could he marry?
JonasResende, Emperor Constantine and other royal buffs in the forum should have the wisest answers. :)
 

abc123

Banned
Sure, that too. But regarding railways, the extent of the Portuguese network by the end of the century was not half bad IMHO.


JonasResende, Emperor Constantine and other royal buffs in the forum should have the wisest answers. :)

OK, so no more railways, what else Portugal needed ( except education ) for better development?


But definitly, some Catholic bride?
 
To industrialize more.



Typically, yes. But as I noted on the other thread, young Pedro V contemplated marrying a British princess.

Pedro V and his brother Luís I had visited England for an extended stay in 1851 at Buckingham Palace with Queen Victoria, Prince Albert and their children. The boys both made a favourable impression on the Queen and she did contemplate marrying Vicky, the Princess Royal to Pedro. Queen Victoria corresponded with both Pedro and Luís throughout their lives. Talk about an interesting POD (no Wilhelm II).

Another choice was the Princess of the Asturias, daughter of Queen Isabella in Spain. Queen Victoria was against this match as it could lead in Portugal and Spain uniting again. The Portuguese government too was apprehensive about such a union.

The third choice was Charlotte of Belgium, whom ended up marrying the ill-fated Archduke Maximilian, later Emperor of Mexico. She died childless and went completely mad and it is assumed that she was barren.

As for the criteria for a royal princess, when selecting a bride for King Luís I, the criteria was that she was from a "liberal family" and that she hail from a country without a colonial empire, and a non-rival to Portugal. However, Queen Victoria played a role in offering Luís advice too.

This meant that some Orleans princesses were considered, however they did not wish to offend Napoleon III, so they were nixed. Archduchess Maria Theresa of Austria, the eldest daughter of Archduke Albert was considered, however her father was against the match. Finally, Maria Pia of Italy was selected, despite Queen Victoria being against the match initially.
 
^^ So Viriato took the royal buff role :)

OK, what is necesarry for that? In Portugal?
Considering how resource-poor Portugal is...

That's not an excuse. It'd be an excuse for not to industrialize to American, British, German or Belgian levels but not for shying away of investing on industry. For example, there's Belgian and Swiss chocolate and that's not because of the endless fields of cocoa in those places (well.. the Belgians eventually got their Congo but still). What we did with São Tomé's cocoa was export it... which is fine! But it's hard to swallow that there can't be anything left to create an industry.

Anyway, Metropolitan Portugal was and is relatively resource-poor but it's not as if it's a barren land. It's not all about the wine and olive oil, Portugal is the world's largest producer of cork.
 

abc123

Banned
^^ So Viriato took the royal buff role :)



That's not an excuse. It'd be an excuse for not to industrialize to American, British, German or Belgian levels but not for shying away of investing on industry. For example, there's Belgian and Swiss chocolate and that's not because of the endless fields of cocoa in those places (well.. the Belgians eventually got their Congo but still). What we did with São Tomé's cocoa was export it... which is fine! But it's hard to swallow that there can't be anything left to create an industry.

Anyway, Metropolitan Portugal was and is relatively resource-poor but it's not as if it's a barren land. It's not all about the wine and olive oil, Portugal is the world's largest producer of cork.

Yes, there's cork, but that's some sort of agriculture too...

But I agree, they should process more products from colonies in Portugal...
 
As for the criteria for a royal princess, when selecting a bride for King Luís I, the criteria was that she was from a "liberal family" and that she hail from a country without a colonial empire, and a non-rival to Portugal. However, Queen Victoria played a role in offering Luís advice too.

He was the first candidate that Pedro II of Brazil tought as a future husband for princess Isabel. However, his advisors told him there would be opposition to the heir of the Brazilian throne married to a Portuguese prince.
 

abc123

Banned
What else from colonies could Portugal process in 1860s and later?
 
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The problem with early industrialization in Portugal was the lack of coal to power steam engines necessary for early industrialization. Portugal does have some coal, however it was generally of poor quality. Switzerland too had no coal, however it had an abundance of hydraulic power, harnessing the power from small streams. Switzerland along with Belgium also both benefit from being int he core of Europe, while Portugal is on its periphery. Importing coal could be a possibility, but coal is bulky and its transport was costly, taking away any competitive advantage Portugal would have in building large textile mills early on (the drivers of the industrial revolution).

By the late 19th century steel was a primary industry and steel output was often considered a barometer of national power. Here too Portugal was less fortunate because it lacked iron ore. Even Japan was at an advantage compared to Portugal because it had enough coal of its own and able to import iron ore from China before World War I.

Chocolate and other cottage industries would not have had an appreciable effect on Portugal. In 1913 there were 70 factories manufacturing chocolate in Belgium employing 2,100 workers with an annual production worth 15,646,200 Francs. Belgian actually imported more chocolates from Switzerland and the Netherlands than it exported. Switzerland had a larger chocolate industry, but even there it only ranked sixth in exports. Portugal had wine with similar value, however it was Portugal's single largest export.

Below I've shown a comparison of the primary exports and imports around the same time all in Francs (before WWI the exchange rate was fixed to gold so that Belgian, Swiss and French franc had the same value).

Exports in Francs in 1908
Iron and Steel 197,305,000
Machinery 193,567,000
Coal 113,331,000
Wool 82,596,000
Flax 82,144,000
Zinc 74,126,000
Chemical Products 57,660,000

Switzerland Exports in 1913 in Francs
Silk Goods 271,018,000
Cotton Goods 260,936,000
Clocks 169,210,000
Animal Food Substances 121,849,000
Chocolate 54,912,000

Portuguese Exports in 1911 Francs
Wine 63,242,000
Cork 19,106,000
Preserved Fish 12,920,180
Fruits & Vegetables 9,185,585
Cotton Textiles & Yarns 6,652,000
Cork Manufactures 5,479,000

Portuguese Imports in 1911 in Francs
Cotton & Cotton Textiles 34,285,000
Coal 28,673,000
Wool Products & Yarn 21,875,000
Codfish 21,750,000
Sugar 16,151,000
Hides & Skins 14,418,000
Machinery 12,947,000
 
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