After reading this blog-post about a monarch I previously knew rather little about - Pedro V, King of Portugal - I was wondering what the effects would've been if both he (and maybe his wife) had lived longer? Would or could Portugal develop in a different way to what it did? Or had the die already been cast on the future? And I wonder if it could mean that Portugal perhaps succeeds in her Pink Map endeavours (although that's far enough in the future to be significantly affected by butterflies).
Pedro V of Portugal Survives
- Thread starter JonasResende
- Start date
King Pedro V was a liberal and reformist, with him in charge of a powerful European monarchy, he could steer other nations into better management.
Having Queen Stephanie of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, dying is not a major threat.
Marrying him off to some on else, I would prefer Princess Alice of the United Kingdom, daughter of Queen Victoria.
If their children marry into other families like the Russian Tsar, maybe they could influence their husband (Nicholas I) to be more liberal leading to no revolution. And with another relative on the throne of Portugal maybe WWI would be different? And Spanish revolution?
Having Queen Stephanie of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, dying is not a major threat.
Marrying him off to some on else, I would prefer Princess Alice of the United Kingdom, daughter of Queen Victoria.
If their children marry into other families like the Russian Tsar, maybe they could influence their husband (Nicholas I) to be more liberal leading to no revolution. And with another relative on the throne of Portugal maybe WWI would be different? And Spanish revolution?
Well lets be honest, Portugal's status as a great power ended with the independence of Brazil. That being said, I think that a Portugal under Pedro V had a good chance of retaining is second-tier status. He was a modern, liberal monarch who supported industry, so no doubt Pedro wouldn't interfere with politics as much as his mother, brother and nephew did. So long-term the Portuguese Monarchy could survive into the 20th and 20st centuries as a national symbol of unity, like the Bourbons of Spain and the British Royal House. And with a forward thinking and looking sovereign, we could see Portugal develop into an industrialized nation, similar to that of Britain.
However, the pink map would be incredibly difficult to pull of, mainly because Portugal was directly challenging British interests. Britain, if you remember, was Portugal's oldest and closest ally, and because of this the Portuguese had no backup when they challenged their old friend. That being said, I think that if they had colonized the region earlier, before the scramble for Africa, then it would have gone unchallenged. Sure Britain might demand the right to freely move across Portuguese territory and control of a railway, but other then that it is possible.
You are quite a bit off in marriage terms. For one, its unlikely that Alice would marry a Catholic, as she would lose her British succession rights, and it would be illegal without Queen Victoria's approval. Though considering the marriage rumors that swirled around Princess Beatrice and the Prince Imperial, and Pedro's status as a Saxe-Coburg, we could end up seeing the first Anglo-Portuguese marriage since Charles II and Catherine of Braganza.
But there is no chance whatsoever of a Braganza-Romanov marriage. As a rule the Russians more or less avoided Catholic brides, preferring the German Protestant Houses. The only time a Catholic was considered for marriage was Princesse Helene d'Orleans for the future Nicholas II, and even then it was a long-shot. As to WWI and the Spanish and Russian revolutions, with a POD in 1859/61, its impossible to predict what affect would happen.
I find the idea of Pedro V marry the Princess Isabel of Brazil and thus reuniting (temporarily) the Brazilian and Portuguese thrones interesting. Although, at a time one of the considerations for a wife for Pedro was the unfortunate (future) Empress Carlota.
Slight changes in the political landscape might see the British be OK with a north of Zambezi Pink Map. Not that this in-and-by-itself would make Portugal more successful, it's just that the stain in the national pride and all the shitstorm that followed could be avoided.
Anyway, I also agree that Pedro surviving would be excellent news for Portugal. He was not a super-hero but he was definitely the right guy for the job: a forward thinker and a genuinely good person.
I believe young [under 18] Pedro himself probed the possibility of marrying with a British royal but Queen Victoria condescendingly dismissed it.
I always loved the idea of a reunited Portugal-Brazil personal union but this would be a constitutional nightmare and it would stir the Brazilian nationalist pot...
unprincipled peter
Donor
being honest, Portugal's great power status ended well before the loss of Brazil.
And being additionally honest, Britain was about as bad an ally as one could have. Marginally better than none, but not by much.
It would take a minor miracle for Portugal to retain the pink map once Britain laid eyes on it. It would take a major miracle for Portugal to rebound to be an industrial power after a century plus of malaise and decline.
That said, a good leader could lead to a reasonable increase in fortune.
And being additionally honest, Britain was about as bad an ally as one could have. Marginally better than none, but not by much.
It would take a minor miracle for Portugal to retain the pink map once Britain laid eyes on it. It would take a major miracle for Portugal to rebound to be an industrial power after a century plus of malaise and decline.
That said, a good leader could lead to a reasonable increase in fortune.
I understand that QV was a little anti-catholic, but what if she was to see how well the two got together. Both were advocates of better health care.
So with out Alice's children, who becomes wife of Nicholas I - does this mean Rasputin is not a strong person?
The Brazilian public would not want links with the old Portuguese monarch.
Ah Pedro V one of my favorite Kings in Portuguese history. I always thought had he survived we could have avoided much of the problems of the late XIX century alas his brother and especially his nephew were kinda incompetent.
Alice herself was interested in health care, especially...ahem...gynaecological issues
. She would regularly quiz her sisters about it when visiting England, to such an extent that Victoria 'ordered' them, that they should avoid answering any questions that Alice might pose to them on the subject.