AHC: The Roma/Gypsies found a Kingdom

What are the chances of the Roma people/gypsies of forming their own Kingdom under a Roma/Gypsy King in medieval history?
 
Very little, since the Roma culture involves traveling, not staying in one place for too long. Because everyone else hates them, thinks they are thieves, probably some sort of heretic (insert favorite heresy of the day here), and one of Europe's pastimes in that era (besides animal torture, jewish pogroms, and whoring) was taking out their anger on Roma.

If we get a proper POD, it would have to involve a Roma Prince(figure) emerging, making some sort of army, knocking heads together, getting a bit of land that's defensible, and holding it long enough to make a coherent nation.
 
Very little, since the Roma culture involves traveling, not staying in one place for too long. Because everyone else hates them, thinks they are thieves, probably some sort of heretic (insert favorite heresy of the day here), and one of Europe's pastimes in that era (besides animal torture, jewish pogroms, and whoring) was taking out their anger on Roma.

If we get a proper POD, it would have to involve a Roma Prince(figure) emerging, making some sort of army, knocking heads together, getting a bit of land that's defensible, and holding it long enough to make a coherent nation.

The turks were travelers too, but they settled down. Maybe some Magyar-esque invasion of like, Croatia? Mountains on a side, an ocean on another, could it work?
 
The turks were travelers too, but they settled down. Maybe some Magyar-esque invasion of like, Croatia? Mountains on a side, an ocean on another, could it work?

Unless they get lucky, they'd wind up under the rule of the Ottomans at some point. I can't remember if they had any major issues with the Turks in the Middle Ages. So being vassals of the largest Muslim Empire ever wouldn't be a bad fate...

So what would the Roma nation wind up being called?
 
Unless they get lucky, they'd wind up under the rule of the Ottomans at some point. I can't remember if they had any major issues with the Turks in the Middle Ages. So being vassals of the largest Muslim Empire ever wouldn't be a bad fate...

So what would the Roma nation wind up being called?

I had once speculations about a topic, maybe a branch of the Romas converting to Islam for a possible increased respect, and becoming subjects-allies of some big powers of the east...

There is a culture related to Roma in the east, I forgot the names.. basically middle eastern, muslim romas kinda...

Rumj for the name?
 

Neirdak

Banned
I don't know, if it does count as a Kingdom, but in 1595, Ştefan Răzvan overcame his birth into slavery, and became the Voivode of Moldavia between 24 April 1595 and August 1595. Ştefan Răzvan's life is very interesting.

The problem is that he was captured and impaled after the battle of Suceava's plains, when Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth invaded Moldavia in 1595. They invaded because he created an alliance between Moldavia and Transylvania. :(

From wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ştefan_Răzvan

The father of Ștefan Răzvan was a Muslim Rom from the Ottoman Empire who emigrated north of Danube, in Wallachia, while his mother was a Romanian peasant from the new country of settlement. At that time, all the Romani people living in the Romanian states of Wallachia and Moldavia were slaves. The rule was applied also to any Romani immigrants, excepting the Ottoman citizens. Benefiting of this exception, the father and later the son could remain free and become an active part in the local society.

Ștefan Răzvan appears as a political player at the beginning of Michael the Brave's rule in Wallachia (1593–1601), as a close noble ally of the Wallachian Prince. He previously converted from Islam to Christianity, attracting the wrath of the Ottomans. He had the boyar social status and he was a cultured person. Later he becomes involved in the politics of the neighbouring Romanian country of Moldavia, where he was appointed as part of the Princiary council, with the title of hatman (second in rank in the army after the Prince), during the reign of Aaron the Tyrant. He led the campaigns of the Moldavian army against Tighina, Chilia, Cetatea Albă and Northern Dobruja, then occupied by the Ottomans. Ștefan became very popular among the soldiers and, with their support and with the help of the Transylvanian Prince Sigismund Báthory, he ousted Aaron the Tyrant (whose image was eroded among the population), on 24 April 1595.

His leadership did not last long, because the neighboring political power, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth did not agree with Ștefan Răzvan's alliance with Transylvania and Wallachia. They invaded Moldavia in August, bringing Ieremia Movilă as the Prince accepted by the Poles. The decisive battle was on the Suceava's plains (on 3 December 1595), concluded, after three hours of fight, with the Polish victory. Ștefan fled towards Transylvania, but he was captured and impaled.

Ştefan Răzvan was an Ottoman citizen. If he lived longer, the situation of Romani there could perhaps have been improved (no slavery, letters of safe conduct, citizenship?) ... other countries could consider all Roma as Moldavians.


Roma in Wallachia-Moldavia :
http://romafacts.uni-graz.at/index....y-first-discrimination/wallachia-and-moldavia

Roma in the Ottoman Empire : (romafacts.uni-graz.at = awesome)
http://romafacts.uni-graz.at/index....n-history-first-discrimination/ottoman-empire

About the Dom (North African and Middle Eastern Roma)
http://www.domresearchcenter.com/journal/11/dom.html
 
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I had once speculations about a topic, maybe a branch of the Romas converting to Islam for a possible increased respect, and becoming subjects-allies of some big powers of the east...

There is a culture related to Roma in the east, I forgot the names.. basically middle eastern, muslim romas kinda...

Rumj for the name?

The Dom people are related to the Roma Gypsies of Europe and the Americas. They're found across the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia.
 
So a large group of Roma go Magyar on part/all of Croatia in the early Middle Ages and found a Kingdom/Principality called Rumj, and convert to some flavor of Christianity.

The Christian Rumji (RL Roma) have good times until the Ottomans show up, at some point the Rumji become Muslims, they remain Ottoman vassals until the Empire weakens.

Rumj becomes somebodies oppressed territory after that until a brief period of freedom after WWI, then the Nazis/Italians invade during WWII, then the Soviet's come and establish a communist government or make it part of Yugoslavia (despite the whole 'we're NOT slavs' thing), more oppression, then the violent breakup of Yugoslavia happens, cue the Rumji War of Independence, mutual attempts at ethnic cleansing between the Serbs and Rumji, and toxic relations with the future Serbian state once all is said and done.
 
So a large group of Roma go Magyar on part/all of Croatia in the early Middle Ages and found a Kingdom/Principality called Rumj, and convert to some flavor of Christianity.

The Christian Rumji (RL Roma) have good times until the Ottomans show up, at some point the Rumji become Muslims, they remain Ottoman vassals until the Empire weakens.

Rumj becomes somebodies oppressed territory after that until a brief period of freedom after WWI, then the Nazis/Italians invade during WWII, then the Soviet's come and establish a communist government or make it part of Yugoslavia (despite the whole 'we're NOT slavs' thing), more oppression, then the violent breakup of Yugoslavia happens, cue the Rumji War of Independence, mutual attempts at ethnic cleansing between the Serbs and Rumji, and toxic relations with the future Serbian state once all is said and done.

Yeah I don't think that would happen. Do you know the butterfly effect? Byzantium might survive or a diffrent turkish warlord takes osmans place
 
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