Pope Election during a ATL 4th Lateran Council

Please vote for a new Pope in 1216

  • Other - please name it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    37
Hi

In my timeline, I had Pope Innocent III dying during the 4th Lateran Council, that happen in my TL in 1216.

I'm struggling whit the question of who might become pope?

In OTL, the papal election of 1216 was a quick affair, Cencio Savelli (Honorius III) was elected Pope by compromise...
ITTL, the election coincide with the IV Lateran Council, so...

I've thinking to several candidates:

Cencio Savelli - ATL Pope Honorius III - well, as he was chosen OTL... he is first on the list
Niccolò de Romanis - he was the Dean of the Sacred College of Cardinals
Robert of Courçon - English cardinal, the Chancellor of the University of Paris, papal legate for the 5 crusade, took an active part in the campaign against heresy in France
Stephen Langton - well... this is an interesting choice. He was "external" cardinal. Archbishop of Canterbury, he is momentarily suspended but present to the Council
Giovanni di Pietro di Bernardone - Saint Francis of Assisi - Why not? Still, having a Saint elected Pope, I'm not sure about the butterflies....
Other - please name it
 
I am not sure if Saint Francis would have accepted even if he was elected. He didn't even become ordained becuase he didn't feel worthy in otl. But hey maybe he takes his election as God calling him to be pope. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Francis bring his strict code of property to the Vatican though I doubt the cardinals would tolerate it for very long.
 
Saint Francis? No way do they elect him unless the Holy Spirit whacks 2/3s of the Cardinals over the head with a 2x4. Seriously. The guy was accused of heresy, although he got cleared. NO WAY is he elected Pope (without visible Divine Intervention - and maybe not then).

Stephen Langton? Oh my. Nothing like upping the fight with England to nuclear level.

Don't know about the others.
 
Voting for a Pope is certainly something I look forward to, but before I let the Holy Spirit guide my mouse :cool:, could you please give a few intro words about each of the candidates (for example de Romanis - the wiki page about him is very terse)?
 
Voting for a Pope is certainly something I look forward to, but before I let the Holy Spirit guide my mouse :cool:, could you please give a few intro words about each of the candidates (for example de Romanis - the wiki page about him is very terse)?

Hi,

About Niccolò de Romanis.
Well... apart that wiki said... I do not know to much from him. I included him o the list as he was the Dean of the Cardinals from 1211 and a Roman, so possible a favorite. He was Bishop of Frascati and legate in England and Prussia.
He was a great friend of Domenico, founder of the Order of Preachers (Dominicans). He died in OTL 1218... but ITTL he could live a little more...

About Robert of Courçon or Curzon
Same, very little know about-him. Still included as he was one of the most influential figures in the Lateran Council and participate to the Conclave of 1216. He was Professor at the University of Paris; later, its chancellor. He was Canon of the cathedral chapter of Noyon in 1204, and Paris in 1209. maybe Professor in Rome, the Candidates for the patriarchate of Constantinople. Was legate in France to preach the crusade against the Albigenses and legate in England. He wrote several works in theology

Stephen Langton and Saint Francis... well, they are pretty known... and Wikipedia is quite rich.

Main source: Wiki and http://www2.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios1212.htm
 
Saint Francis? No way do they elect him unless the Holy Spirit whacks 2/3s of the Cardinals over the head with a 2x4. Seriously. The guy was accused of heresy, although he got cleared. NO WAY is he elected Pope (without visible Divine Intervention - and maybe not then).

Stephen Langton? Oh my. Nothing like upping the fight with England to nuclear level.

Don't know about the others.

Thanks for comment. You are maybe right concerning Saint Francis... and Langton :D

I still waiting your vote!

EDIT: I haven't founded any references that Saint Francis was accused of heresy...
 
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EDIT: I haven't founded any references that Saint Francis was accused of heresy...

Hunh. Neither can I, on a quick search. It may have been from a biography of St. Francis, which may have exaggerated.

But there WERE groups that did some of the same things that Francis preached, mendicant preachers preaching poverty, who WERE condemned as heretics (the Waldensians are the best example, a generation or so before). I'm thinking there was a guy just before Francis named "Salvatore" or something vaguely like that, how also preached similar messages and was condemned as a heretic.

He was clearly on a knife edge of what was allowable, and some of his followers a generation or two later, fell over that edge, even though Francis caused the edge to move....
 
I must say Francis I would make for a very interesting Pope. The Church won't be any where as near powerful and this may as well butterfly away the Reformation.
 
Well,

The reformation is faaar away...

Common guys, only (EDIT)21 voters?
Why you refrain to vote? It's because concern a religious matter?...

I have no intention to damage or negatively alter the Church image or the Saint Francis one.
And this election is more in the "Catholic" spirit then the one that brought Honorius III as Pope (it was a concession, he was chosen by 2 cardinals only)...

For now, Francis lead the lot with 9 votes to 4 for Robert Curzon! So, maybe I should start to read his biography... :rolleyes:

Still, there is still plenty of time to vote and to change... or not... :D

I will keep the pool open all this week and write the "Conclave result" thread next Monday.
 
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I have already voted but could I put forward these names for though:
- Ugolino di Segni, Bishop of Ostia e Velletri.
- Conrad of Urach, Cardinal Bishop of Porto and Santa Rufina
- Giovanni di San Paolo, Priest of S. Prisca
 
Saint Francis? No way do they elect him unless the Holy Spirit whacks 2/3s of the Cardinals over the head with a 2x4. Seriously. The guy was accused of heresy, although he got cleared. NO WAY is he elected Pope (without visible Divine Intervention - and maybe not then).

Stephen Langton? Oh my. Nothing like upping the fight with England to nuclear level.

Don't know about the others.

This. Please, anybody but Francis. This would break the plausibility of your TL.
 
27 votes til now...
First position, Francis with 10 votes
Second position,Curzon with 6 votes

Sunday I will close the pool and announce the Pope.

Till then, please vote!
 
Pool Closed

Thank you everybody for voting!

Final result: Francis of Assisi. with 12 votes (+ mine to confirm his election).:eek:

You challenged me to make his election AND his pontificate plausible.
Challenge accepted!

Tomorrow or the day after I will make the thread.

I invite you all to read my timeline, judge and comment it.

Thanks!
 
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