What's the fascination with the Rio Grande Republic?

I've read my fair share of Mexico TLs in this site, and for some reason in many of them, when/if Mexico balkanizes there's always a Republic of the Rio Grande. Why is that?
OTL it didn't even last a year, didn't do anything noteworthy, and collapsed when its leaders decided to take the Mexican offer/bribe to end the rebellion, so I've been wondering why a lot of people use it in TLs if it had zero chance of succeeding.
 
What's the fascination with threads calling out other members for focusing too much on some area of history or some POD for other members' taste?
 
People love splinter states. I mean--we have tons of "Republic of Texas" threads, many of which ignore the fact that it was a perennially broke entity that essentially just kept waving towards the US and shouting out "Annex us! Oh, please, annex us! We'll be ever such a good state!" for most of its existence. We have people who do things with the "Bear Flag Republic" which was a place-holder government that's job WAS to get annexed. We have "Republic of Deseret" bits which ignore... well, a whole lot of things.

And then there's the whole CSA matter, which I will not get into in this post.
 
People love splinter states. I mean--we have tons of "Republic of Texas" threads, many of which ignore the fact that it was a perennially broke entity that essentially just kept waving towards the US and shouting out "Annex us! Oh, please, annex us! We'll be ever such a good state!" for most of its existence. We have people who do things with the "Bear Flag Republic" which was a place-holder government that's job WAS to get annexed. We have "Republic of Deseret" bits which ignore... well, a whole lot of things.

And then there's the whole CSA matter, which I will not get into in this post.

Speaking from personal experience, I'd say the fascination with splinter states stems from the desire to see not just a new country, but a new culture emerge. That culture will then influence the cultures of its neighbors, either by example or by opposition. Sovereignty has a way of making a state define itself as a distinct entity from its neighbors with distinct values. It's one thing to shift the course of events in a nation with which we're all familiar and alter the national character. To imagine a state that never had the chance to exist offers, in theory, greater flexibility and creativity in defining the national character, and I think that's a tantalizing prospect for the lovers of allohistory. Some countries and cultures prove more plausible than others. That's why we get glimpses of Texas, Pernambuco, a thousand New Englands and "Cottolvania." It's not within my powers to imagine how a Republic of the Rio Grande could possibly succeed under the historical circumstances with which I'm familiar, but in the right hands, I'm sure it'd be quite interesting.

Even an implausible treatment of a sovereign state offers us something, and it's not just entertainment. I love allohistory because it strengthens my understanding of our own history. Allohistory is, in part, the study of plausibility and inevitability, an analysis of how things came to be, how unlikely our present world is, and the myriad possibilities we could live in. Even a bad allohistory deepens that understanding, and perhaps inspires a better writer to pen something more plausible and enticing. To quote the great charlatan Thomas Edison, "Through all the years of experimenting and research, I never once made a discovery. I start where the last man left off. … All my work was deductive, and the results I achieved were those of invention pure and simple. ... I would construct a theory and work on its lines until I found it was untenable. Then it would be discarded at once and another theory evolved. This was the only possible way for me to work out the problem. … I speak without exaggeration when I say that I have constructed 3,000 different theories in connection with the electric light, each one of them reasonable and apparently likely to be true. Yet only in two cases did my experiments prove the truth of my theory."
 
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320px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_the_Rio_Grande.svg.png

I believe the kick-ass flag also plays a part in it.
 
People love splinter states. I mean--we have tons of "Republic of Texas" threads, many of which ignore the fact that it was a perennially broke entity that essentially just kept waving towards the US and shouting out "Annex us! Oh, please, annex us! We'll be ever such a good state!" for most of its existence. We have people who do things with the "Bear Flag Republic" which was a place-holder government that's job WAS to get annexed. We have "Republic of Deseret" bits which ignore... well, a whole lot of things.

And then there's the whole CSA matter, which I will not get into in this post.

Not to mention all the "Vermont Republic" wank
 
That makes sense. I guess I didn't phrase my question properly, because I do have a fascination for new countries too.
I guess it's because Texas was independent and the CSA had a decent shot at independence, but the Rio Grande Republic didn't. Still, now that you put it that way I'm a bit more interested in seeing an independent Republic of the Rio Grande
 
[Eurocentric mode on] People are fascinated by the Rio Grande Republic?:confused::p;) [Eurocentric mode off]

On a more serious note, I didn't notice it here on this forum, nor on my continent for that matter. Those who do know it (people here are like to be amongst them) may find it interesting, but often also have other interests too.

Though I'd be the last to deny I have my own fair share of fascinations. :)
 
Speaking from personal experience, I'd say the fascination with splinter states stems from the desire to see not just a new country, but a new culture emerge. That culture will then influence the cultures of its neighbors, either by example or by opposition. Sovereignty has a way of making a state define itself as a distinct entity from its neighbors with distinct values. It's one thing to shift the course of events in a nation with which we're all familiar and alter the national character. To imagine a state that never had the chance to exist offers, in theory, greater flexibility and creativity in defining the national character, and I think that's a tantalizing prospect for the lovers of allohistory. Some countries and cultures prove more plausible than others. That's why we get glimpses of Texas, Pernambuco, a thousand New Englands and "Cottolvania." It's not within my powers to imagine how a Republic of the Rio Grande could possibly succeed under the historical circumstances with which I'm familiar, but in the right hands, I'm sure it'd be quite interesting.

Even an implausible treatment of a sovereign state offers us something, and it's not just entertainment. I love allohistory because it strengthens my understanding of our own history. Allohistory is, in part, the study of plausibility and inevitability, an analysis of how things came to be, how unlikely our present world is, and the myriad possibilities we could live in. Even a bad allohistory deepens that understanding, and perhaps inspires a better writer to pen something more plausible and enticing. To quote the great charlatan Thomas Edison, "Through all the years of experimenting and research, I never once made a discovery. I start where the last man left off. … All my work was deductive, and the results I achieved were those of invention pure and simple. ... I would construct a theory and work on its lines until I found it was untenable. Then it would be discarded at once and another theory evolved. This was the only possible way for me to work out the problem. … I speak without exaggeration when I say that I have constructed 3,000 different theories in connection with the electric light, each one of them reasonable and apparently likely to be true. Yet only in two cases did my experiments prove the truth of my theory."

Oh, I'm not saying that one can't make fascinating TLs on these matters--or for that matter that they aren't interesting things to explore. Just that one sees people looking into these matters and plausibility be damned.
 
People love splinter states. I mean--we have tons of "Republic of Texas" threads, many of which ignore the fact that it was a perennially broke entity that essentially just kept waving towards the US and shouting out "Annex us! Oh, please, annex us! We'll be ever such a good state!" for most of its existence. We have people who do things with the "Bear Flag Republic" which was a place-holder government that's job WAS to get annexed. We have "Republic of Deseret" bits which ignore... well, a whole lot of things.

And then there's the whole CSA matter, which I will not get into in this post.

Look at a map of Europe in 1914. Look at a map of Europe in 2014. Note that there a re a lot of "splinter states" whose existence would have seemed highly implausible in 1914. Too small to be viable, too backward, no historical record of independence for centuries or sometimes ever, the people in many of them didn't even want independence, etc.
 
Oh, I'm not saying that one can't make fascinating TLs on these matters--or for that matter that they aren't interesting things to explore. Just that one sees people looking into these matters and plausibility be damned.

That's definitely true.

Maybe Splinterstate Timelines are just the most obviously implausible, though. Other timelines might require more than a glance to see the gaping fissures, but when it comes to Splinterstates, a Point of Divergence is not usually enough to make your case. The tradition is to push just one domino to avoid seeming like an overbearing deity over your timeline, but sometimes you need several dominoes to fall.

I have a clear bias here, considering my New England timeline, which does require a certain suspension of disbelief for dramatic effect. But the reader requires some incentive to suspend their disbelief. You can't expect to sit someone down for a crazy lecture without offering food first. Whether your incentive is proof or entertainment, it takes effort to establish that contract with the reader. I can certainly understand why someone might be frustrated at having to separate the wheat from the chaff, but that's how the cookie crumbles. Only 10% of what the artist creates is any good, and budding creators need their early, smelly works released into the wind if they wish to improve. Moreover, this act of separating what we like from what we don't like is how we establish a discerning palette.

Well, I think I've blathered on for long enough. I'm a big fan of your work, by the way. Your mellow snark in the Tudor Rose was a source of inspiration for my own timeline's narrator.
 
Becuase,
Vive Québec! The South shall rise again! Never forget the Alamo! [Car bomb goes off in Northern Ireland] etc. When a region culture is different, people love to see it separate. And really,

Vive Québec! Vive Acadia! Vive Cajun! Vive Maine! Vive la Nouvelle Français! Merde Ottawa!
 

JJohnson

Banned
For me, it's a potential US State if Texas can help it with independence and enough Anglo settlers reach it, with the right incentives.
 
Look at a map of Europe in 1914. Look at a map of Europe in 2014. Note that there a re a lot of "splinter states" whose existence would have seemed highly implausible in 1914. Too small to be viable, too backward, no historical record of independence for centuries or sometimes ever, the people in many of them didn't even want independence, etc.

Yeah, I remember in the 1970s my 20th Century European History prof (an Austrian) spending all this time on the Balkans pre-WWI when we all wanted to get on to the good stuff of the World Wars, Bolshevism Naziam, the Great Depression; and here he's wasting all this time on vanished places like Serbia, Croatia and (God help us) Bosnia and Herzevogina
 
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