An Alternate Colonial Era

What if the roles of Portugal, Spain, England (or Britain if you want), and France had been switched during? For example, what if Portugal colonized Louisiana, Haiti, and so on; and France colonized Brazil and so on? Or Spain colonizing Canada, the Eastern seaboard, and so on; and England colonized Mexico and so on?

How would that have affected history, if it would have affected it in anyway.
 
Well, you'd have to be a little more specific as to which colonizing nation gets what. And when. And how. There are countless ways it could turn out.

Just as a great way to explore the idea of different colonization, I recommend the excellent alternate history Where Hearts Were Entertaining June by PlatoonSgt. It features an English Brazil and Portuguese control over southeastern north America. It's also just really, really good.
 
Spain colonized South NA and SA because that's how the Gulf Stream worked out. But a larger French presence in SA is possible.
 
Well, you'd have to be a little more specific as to which colonizing nation gets what. And when. And how. There are countless ways it could turn out.

Just as a great way to explore the idea of different colonization, I recommend the excellent alternate history Where Hearts Were Entertaining June by PlatoonSgt. It features an English Brazil and Portuguese control over southeastern north America. It's also just really, really good.


1) Noted on the alternate.

2) You have seen many of the colonial empires to their greatest extent right? Britain had Canada, the eastern USA, parts of Africa, India, parts of Oceania; Spain had southern NA and most of SA; Portugal had Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, and many trade ports here and there; and France went for Louisiana and parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania.

What I believe I mean is what if Britain had decided to go where Spain had originally gone & vice versa and France decided to go where Portugal had originally gone & vice versa?
 
1) Noted on the alternate.

2) You have seen many of the colonial empires to their greatest extent right? Britain had Canada, the eastern USA, parts of Africa, India, parts of Oceania; Spain had southern NA and most of SA; Portugal had Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, and many trade ports here and there; and France went for Louisiana and parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania.

What I believe I mean is what if Britain had decided to go where Spain had originally gone & vice versa and France decided to go where Portugal had originally gone & vice versa?

You also have to consider WHEN colonies took place.

By the time England and France were dipping their toes in the Americas (Britain was not formed at this point), Spain and Portugal already had almost exclusive control of South/Central America (With the Dutch having a few bits like parts of Brazil which it lost to Portugal).

Also remember Spain and Portugal had a personal union, making them a far more powerful colonial force.

You need to alter things in Europe first -

1) Maybe prevent the Portuguese/Spanish union?
2) Have greater support and success in the 'early days' for English and French colonial expeditions (possibly even a successful Scottish colony given they tried and failed - that would seriously alter history - no British union of crowns? No UK)

You alter the colonial age you can alter the face of Europe as well. Perhaps no UK. Perhaps the Dutch end up reabsorbed into a larger power.

At this point everything is to play for.
 

iddt3

Donor
Something else to keep in is that a large part in colonies developing the way they did was influenced by the prevailing winds from Europe to the New World. IIRC Spain would have had a much harder time settling the northern North American coast than the British did. Likewise the British are going to want outposts in NA as a staging area for pushing further south.
 
Hey, sorry for not posting.... Been busy.

Anyway, when you put it like that.... Changing the face of Europe.


I do know that Britain wasn't formed until a certain point and that Portugal was in a PU under Spain.

Perhaps, Columbus didn't land in the Caribbean, maybe Newfoundland due to several storms. Just spitting out ideas.
 
France did attempt to colonize Brazil in OTL (well the French Protestants did try anyway); have those settlements succeed in the 1500s when they were founded and have France use them as a place to send it's undesirables and Protestants and maybe you'll end up with a French Protestant Brazil
 
You could just have Ferdinand and Isabella reject Columbus's proposals, as Portugal did. In fact they did originally, and he was headed next to France, but Isabella changed her mind before he got there. Whichever nation sponsors Columbus gets the first foothold in the Americas.
 
You're not going to get spheres of colonization to switch complete Spain with England/UK and France with Portugal without switching the locations of those countries within Europe. However, here are some possibilities that could happen:

1) With a 15th-century POD you could potentially have Portugal and Castille switching roles in exploration. OTL Portugal was most interested in finding a route to Asia around Africa and Castille/Spain was more interested in colonizing the New World. Brazil only really happened because it was a stop on the way to the Cape of Good Hope. I think it wouldn't be difficult to have Castille be more interested in the route around Africa and Portugal more interested in the New World, although the Portugese don't have the population base to colonize it in the same way the Spanish did.

2) The Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494 was the original agreement which divided the world between Spain and Portugal and set up the original spheres of colonization. If this changes, you could see very different colonization. For example, during this time period latitidue was MUCH easier to measure than longitude so maybe rather than dividing the world East/West it could be divided North/South so that Portugal gets all lands South of the equator while Spain gets all lands to the North. This would still give Portugal what they want (a route around Africa to Asia) and Spain what they want (colonies in the region discovered by Columbus), so I think it could be plausible??

3) English and French colonial posessions could easily be switched if you pick the right POD. But at this point we're talking about a 16th century POD which would mean that Spain and Portugal's colonies would already be established. So, switching England with Spain and France with Portugal isn't going to happen.

4) There are two Personal Unions which reduced the number of potential colonial powers. Scotland could have been a colonial power separate from England if not for the Union of the Crowns. Similarly, Aragon could have been a colonial power separate from Castille if Ferdinand and Isabella had never married. I can't see Scotland or Aragon establishing colonies to the same extend as England or Castille, but they could potentially colonize as much as the Portugese or the Dutch....

5) I'd LOVE to see a TL in which Ireland, Wales, Brittany, or Navarre has colonies, but this would require a MUCH earlier POD (14th century or earlier). But, all four of these are placed in good locations for sea voyages out into the Atlantic (in particular, Britanny was the base for many of the French explorers).
 
Perhaps, Columbus didn't land in the Caribbean, maybe Newfoundland due to several storms. Just spitting out ideas.

Again the air stream pushed him to the Caribbean, and storms wouldn't push there. But maybe Bermuda which would lead to the Spanish owning the 13 coloneis

You could just have Ferdinand and Isabella reject Columbus's proposals, as Portugal did. In fact they did originally, and he was headed next to France, but Isabella changed her mind before he got there. Whichever nation sponsors Columbus gets the first foothold in the Americas.

France was still recovering from the hundreds year war and also had the religious problems, it wasn't funding him.

However if Columbus is rejected by all then we see a later start to the colonization of the AMericas. Spain got so much because it had a big lead

2) The Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494 was the original agreement which divided the world between Spain and Portugal and set up the original spheres of colonization. If this changes, you could see very different colonization. For example, during this time period latitidue was MUCH easier to measure than longitude so maybe rather than dividing the world East/West it could be divided North/South so that Portugal gets all lands South of the equator while Spain gets all lands to the North. This would still give Portugal what they want (a route around Africa to Asia) and Spain what they want (colonies in the region discovered by Columbus), so I think it could be plausible??

3) English and French colonial posessions could easily be switched if you pick the right POD. But at this point we're talking about a 16th century POD which would mean that Spain and Portugal's colonies would already be established. So, switching England with Spain and France with Portugal isn't going to happen.

4) There are two Personal Unions which reduced the number of potential colonial powers. Scotland could have been a colonial power separate from England if not for the Union of the Crowns. Similarly, Aragon could have been a colonial power separate from Castille if Ferdinand and Isabella had never married. I can't see Scotland or Aragon establishing colonies to the same extend as England or Castille, but they could potentially colonize as much as the Portugese or the Dutch....

THey would probably move it up to Panama

Scotland tired and failed miserably

Aragon easily, they were a strong naval power.
 
^Scotland actually was a separate colonial power during its personal union, but all its colonies failed.
 
Aragon easily, they were a strong naval power.

Sure Aragon was a naval power, but they were a Mediterranean naval power. Did they ever send ships out into the Atlantic? Aragon also has the Straits of Gibraltar (controlled by Castille) to deal with. If war ever broke out between them and Castille they'd be cut off from their colonies and Castille could take them all one by one.
 
^Scotland actually was a separate colonial power during its personal union, but all its colonies failed.

Not ALL of them. Nova Scotia is still going strong (OK, I know Nova Scotia was founded after the Acts of Union so the Kingdom of Scotland didn't really exist any more).
 
5) I'd LOVE to see a TL in which Ireland, Wales, Brittany, or Navarre has colonies, but this would require a MUCH earlier POD (14th century or earlier). But, all four of these are placed in good locations for sea voyages out into the Atlantic (in particular, Britanny was the base for many of the French explorers).
You should really give the TL in my sig a try. I've got Irish in New York, Bretons in Brazil, and Aragonese in New Orleans so far:cool:
 
Basques would often frequent the St. Lawrence Bay to fish, trade, and whale. Spain could easily conquer the region to make sure the Basques have a monopoly on the whales and cod. this would possibly begin the era of Spanish Canada. most spread in those regions would be based off where whales and fish are.
 
That sounds like my last EU3 game :)
Secretly, most of the preliminary colonizers are going to be pushed out of the way by great powers in the end, but there will be some exceptions and some definite marks left by these earlier colonizers.
 
Sure Aragon was a naval power, but they were a Mediterranean naval power. Did they ever send ships out into the Atlantic? Aragon also has the Straits of Gibraltar (controlled by Castille) to deal with. If war ever broke out between them and Castille they'd be cut off from their colonies and Castille could take them all one by one.

It depends on the war in Europe
 
Top